Problem, Bats right now are too good.
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Because it has 30-40% defense on all terrains and has poor Cold and Pierce resistancies.Nebiros wrote:The glider can do all the same things, has ZoC, is significantly harder to kill and only slightly more expensive. Why aren't we discussing how "overpowered" it is?
And it has upkeep.
The reduction of the bat's village defense should solve all problems. Well done on the change.
Not really sure about such fairness, as ulfs are really weak against skeletons. I would say it compensates adept's weakness quite nice, as both skeleton and adept are cheaper than ulf. But considering whole picture, it might be fine anyway.UngeheuerLich wrote:its just fair that the bat can kill the ulf. ulfs are really strong vs undead (adept killers without any risk)
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ok, actually thats how they work, because water villages are village(village,water) d'oh!UngeheuerLich wrote: making bat 40% on villages actually doesn´t sound that bad. although maybe they should retain 60% on cave and water villages. to emphasize their use on those terrains. on normal land however the change seems appropriate.
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Bats killing Ulfserkers is really exaggerated. Bats usually don´t kill ulfs. Even 3 bats don´t kill a full hp ulf.Haibane wrote:Not really sure about such fairness, as ulfs are really weak against skeletons. I would say it compensates adept's weakness quite nice, as both skeleton and adept are cheaper than ulf. But considering whole picture, it might be fine anyway.UngeheuerLich wrote:its just fair that the bat can kill the ulf. ulfs are really strong vs undead (adept killers without any risk)
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I've seen a full ulf lose to a bat... it was dusk, not day, but still<_<UngeheuerLich wrote:Bats killing Ulfserkers is really exaggerated. Bats usually don´t kill ulfs. Even 3 bats don´t kill a full hp ulf.Haibane wrote: Not really sure about such fairness, as ulfs are really weak against skeletons. I would say it compensates adept's weakness quite nice, as both skeleton and adept are cheaper than ulf. But considering whole picture, it might be fine anyway.
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this goes for they're/their/there as well
this goes for they're/their/there as well
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i have seen stranger things than that... but 4-6 hits from an ulf kill a bat and you attack 4 times (with 40% to hit) while a bat attack only twice a "round" with about 70% to hit.Thrawn wrote: I've seen a full ulf lose to a bat... it was dusk, not day, but still<_<
So in 2 "rounds" a bat hits about 3 times dealing 12 damage and regenrating 6 hp at most. A ulfserker hits about 3 hits doing 12 or 15 points of damage. 6 rounds, and the bat is dead, and the ulf is nearly dead.
But: this is the best case for the bat. If the ulf gets a "streak" hitting 3 times while not beeing hit, the bat is dead earlier... and this is not that rare...
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Yes, any strong, resilient bat at First or Second watch can beat a fast intelligent ulfserker. How powerful the bat is. I think just lowering the village defense really solved the power problem for the batWeeksy wrote:It is very very possible for a resilient strong bat to be able to kill an ulf at night, between 60.4 and 25% to kill an ulf on grass, depending on traits.
Edit: Fixed spelling error...I'm a perfectionist.
Last edited by Darth Jordius on February 16th, 2008, 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Really? What about the stats for normal bat and ulfserker? That'd be a little different.Weeksy wrote:that 25% is for a strong resilient ulf.
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Why is everyone comparing a bat to an ulf? I think people are forgetting something very important here.
An ulf has horrible stats for its cost. Its only saving grace is that it has berserk, which is a double edged sword, and makes the unit very situational.
It's not supposed to attack units with a primary melee attack. At least not healthy ones. And if a melee unit attacks my ulf, I would expect my ulf to die, even on good terrain. Though admittedly, I wouldn't expect this from a mere lvl 0 unit, this is a special case. The bat as a drain attack, which is especially effective against low-def berserkers like ulfs. And the bat costs 13 gold, which is pretty expensive for a lvl 0.
So saying that a bat can kill an ulf is like saying that an ulf can kill a DA. Healthy melee units are supposed to counter ulfs (cost wise).
Stop picking on the ulf.
An ulf has horrible stats for its cost. Its only saving grace is that it has berserk, which is a double edged sword, and makes the unit very situational.
It's not supposed to attack units with a primary melee attack. At least not healthy ones. And if a melee unit attacks my ulf, I would expect my ulf to die, even on good terrain. Though admittedly, I wouldn't expect this from a mere lvl 0 unit, this is a special case. The bat as a drain attack, which is especially effective against low-def berserkers like ulfs. And the bat costs 13 gold, which is pretty expensive for a lvl 0.
So saying that a bat can kill an ulf is like saying that an ulf can kill a DA. Healthy melee units are supposed to counter ulfs (cost wise).
Stop picking on the ulf.