Merman Netcaster->Entangler RIPLIB problems

[Weeksy]

I was just wondering if it'd be much of an issue if the Entangler (currently 8-3 ranged) had its ranged damage increased by one so that it was no longer in violation of riplib, seeing as the Netcaster has 9-2 ranged.

[IB]

Isn't 24 higher than 18?

[zookeeper]

Isn't 24 higher than 18?

Yes, but you're also less likely to kill an enemy with 9 hitpoints.

[IB]

The attack is slow, I normally use it first so I receive less damage. Plus why would you kill with a level 3 unit that has no advancement, I'd rather give the experience to someone else, so that's a plus.

[Weeksy]

it's more that it's against established wesnoth philosophy, and that bugs me to no end.

[Sapient]

Until we have Wesfractionoth where it can do 8.5-3 damage, I don't see that happening. Personally, I think this RIPLIB stuff gets a bit blown out of proportion sometimes.

[Mythological]

Technically, the levelup from the merman netcaster into an entangler is a RIPLIB, but it is a minor issue. I've noticed it long ago, but I did not find it important enough to bug the MP developers about it. There are other cases of marginal RIPLIB, like the elvish rider => elvish outrider level up where the ranged attack changes from 9 - 2 to 8 - 3, same as the one of the merman.

Also, knight => paladin/grand knight level up is a more subtle kind of riplib because neither of the advancements is superior to the knight in every way - the grand knight has one movement point less, while the paladin's arcane sword deals less damage to some units than the knight's blade, with elusivefoot units being ones where the difference is the biggest : paladin - 6-5; knight - 10-4. So if you want to kill a 7-10 hitpoint thief who is 8 movement away, you are better off with a knight than with a paladin and a grand knight together because the grand knight wont be able to reach the enemy this turn, while the paladin will not be able to kill it with one swing.

Drake clashers getting firststrike can also lead to riplib because the gladiator does not have firstrike, while the slasher has less strikes than the clasher does. If your unit is low on hitpoints, and it is attacked by a low hitpoint enemy unit so that they can kill each other with a single hit, your clasher has a better chance to kill the enemy and a better chance to survive than either the slasher or the gladiatior in its place ( but the difference is not big and in all 3 cases luck is still the most important factor ).

The things I've mentioned are not very important - they don't really affect the gameplay and can be considered nitpicking. I dont care if they get changed or not - I've just mentioned them. Let the people in charge of unit balance think about them.

[IB]

established wesnoth philosophy

Is there some resource for reading up on EWP?

[appleide]

established wesnoth philosophy

Is there some resource for reading up on EWP?

If you can bother, the forums, and perhaps the FPI's.

[suokko]

I think some old RIBLIB guidline post stated that 9-2 -> 8-3 isn't againsty riblib but if it goes 20-3 -> 3-15 then it is. So small damage decrease isn't breaking any rules.

[Weeksy]

enemy leader is at 9 hp. I would much rather have a netcaster than an entangler (assuming that's the only unit that can reach the enemy) to finish the kill before they can escape, and that's something that in general should never happen without explanation IMO.

[irrevenant]

Is there some resource for reading up on EWP?

If you can bother, the forums, and perhaps the FPI's.

RIPLIB is not in the FPI because it's not really a proposal or idea. Noone would suggest it.

[Lorbi]

i prefer a unit that violates RIPLIB over a unit that is unbalanced

[Weeksy]

Thus my asking, at the top, if 3 extra damage on a l3 unit that you rarely see used is an imbalancing thing.

[appleide]

If you can bother, the forums, and perhaps the FPI's.

RIPLIB is not in the FPI because it's not really a proposal or idea. Noone would suggest it.

But he would find some EWP in the FPI thread.