Ladder Site Online...

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

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tekelili
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by tekelili »

Game comment by Nelson:
My Knalgans vs. ccc's Drakes on Crescent Lake. He didn't play a terrible game, he crushed my poorly organized right side, but I wiped out his left side and he didn't properly reinforce it, instead bringing everything including his leader down the right side for a skirmisher-based assassination attempt. This left me with a huge income advantage to buy shields to prevent the assassination attempt. This guy doesn't seem like a total waste of time despite his pitiful rating, I hope he wins a game so
I Have read other game comment confused about this guy (ccc) behavior. I have watched several games of him and answer is very easy: this guy is quite skilled, but never report a win, so any game vs him has no risk for your rank... and very little reward :P (I dont have anything against this kind of behavior, btw)
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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Rigor
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Rigor »

POLL - POLL - POLL

The more the merrier!

http://www.learnmyself.com/poll52570x85B1d0fa

R.
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Doc Paterson
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Doc Paterson »

Rigor wrote:POLL - POLL - POLL

The more the merrier!

http://www.learnmyself.com/poll52570x85B1d0fa

R.
Unfortunately, I think we can predict what the results will be here- That ladder players (who are mostly conservative when it comes to choosing between a map they're familiar with or a map they're not) will check mostly the "standards."

Maybe I'm wrong, and I hope I am wrong; we'll see.

Remember that democracy is not always the way to go with things like this. ;)

By the way, let's get some write-ins for Lunar Landing!
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Doc Paterson
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Doc Paterson »

Updates for Caves OTB, Hamlets, and Arcanclave Citadel:

http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 23#p471823
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
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I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
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Doc Paterson
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Doc Paterson »

I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses.
-Nosebane, Sorcerer Supreme
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tekelili
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by tekelili »

What happened to crescendant lake on random map picker?

I couldnt find it, it is still ladder official map?
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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Quetzalcoatl
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Quetzalcoatl »

I removed astral port, crescent lake, scarred foothills, serpent ford and unfolding space from all without consulting this decision with anyone. Instead of them now there aer: aethermaw, arcanclave citadel, elensefar courtyard and thousand stings garrison.

Cheers
Q
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
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Doc Paterson
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Doc Paterson »

Quetzalcoatl wrote:I removed astral port, crescent lake, scarred foothills, serpent ford and unfolding space from all without consulting this decision with anyone. Instead of them now there aer: aethermaw, arcanclave citadel, elensefar courtyard and thousand stings garrison.

Cheers
Q
I think it would be good to at least put Astral Port back, seeing as I'd like to mainline it some time in the very near future. I've had similar thoughts about Crescent Lake, and would like to see that return, but it's your call. :)
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
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Cackfiend
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Cackfiend »

Quetzalcoatl wrote:I removed astral port, crescent lake, scarred foothills, serpent ford and unfolding space from all without consulting this decision with anyone. Instead of them now there aer: aethermaw, arcanclave citadel, elensefar courtyard and thousand stings garrison.

Cheers
Q
but those maps are still in the "adventurous rmp" right?

getting a changelog on the rmp would be awesome :P
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I'm the guy who's responsible for 40% Gliders in all hexes... I can now die a happy man. =D
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Quetzalcoatl
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Quetzalcoatl »

Maybe I will re-add some of removed maps in the future Im not sure yet. Anyway removed maps had their time in RMP addon while the maps that are now in Adventurous set did not so it will stay the way it is for a longer while :).
Cackfiend wrote:but those maps are still in the "adventurous rmp" right?
Nope, they are out. Im to lazy to have separate changelog :P, here is however commit list that do pretty much the same:
https://github.com/Quetzalcoatl/Random_ ... its/master

I suppose some of you maybe disappointed about changes I made. There is possibility to manually download any version of RMP addon and replace it in wesnoth settings folder. Go there:
https://github.com/Quetzalcoatl/Random_Map_Picker and look for a big gray button called downloads.

Cheers
Q
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Kolbur
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Kolbur »

To clarify:
Quetzalcoatl made the decision to completely remove all UMC maps from the RMP on his own without consulting a ladder admin or any other player. Just because. Of course people are angry about this and that's why he now suggests them to get the RMP version they like most. Imo this is just as bad because this way there will be all kinds of different map versions out there. As long as Quetzalcoatl keeps making decisions that way I have no choice but to keep my old RMP version. I'm sorry I can't play the newest updates of Doc's maps this way but this is the way he wants it.
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tekelili
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by tekelili »

If I remember well, I could host crescent lake time ago, just because I downloaded rmp. As you can supose, I am not happy of suddenly discover a map was "deleted from wesnoth" just because I made mistake of updated add ons. But may be you dont care :annoyed:
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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The Black Sword
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by The Black Sword »

To doublecheck: All these maps are still ladder-legal right?

I quite liked Crescent Lake, and Unfolding space and astral port too, I was sad to see them removed. I suppose I can still play them anyway but it'll be harder to get opponents. You maintain the RMP so its fair enough that you can change it when you want but it is unofficially affiliated with the ladder and it would be nice to at least be given a reason why the maps were removed.
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Doc Paterson
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Doc Paterson »

Kolbur wrote:To clarify:
I have no choice but to keep my old RMP version. I'm sorry I can't play the newest updates of Doc's maps
Hey, that's not true though! I think most people know that I post them on the forums before they even go into the RMP (or maybe some don't?).

About this whole matter of the map pack- I understand that people don't like Q's "rogue" decision here, but let's not vilify him. I probably would not have done it exactly the same way, but I think I can explain to you all why he did it.

1. More importantly than anything else, the RMP program lacks maintainers specializing in map balancing. Many of the original creators have abandoned their maps, and Q doesn't have the time to take all of that work and hassle on.
2. Whether some people realize it or not, most of the maps added had serious, serious balance issues that would have taken a lot of work, and many of these had no maintainers at all. They were languishing in limbo for lack of a better term. Q just cannot do all of that, and I've got enough map work to do already, with the mainlines and mainline candidates.
3. Q made a general judgment call that the maps he was cutting were of lesser quality. Highly debatable of course, but I don't think he wanted to involve himself in a lengthy debate about the merits and flaws of all of these maps.
4. To simplify things, Q cut maps that were not on the obvious track to mainlining. He kept the three of mine that are (Aethermaw, TSG, and Arcanclave), but also cut a few which I consider to be quite mainline-able, such as Astral Port and Crescent Lake. Though it wasn't a recent cut, I think that Walls of Pyrennis also had/has mainline potential.

Anyways, like Q's decision or not, he was and is doing a real lot for the ladder, and I think he was being treated a bit like a genie. His desire to simplify things is understandable. If people want things to be different though in regards to what maps are or are not included, we'll need some volunteers who are good at balancing maps, and who will have the dedication to "adopt" one or more maps, and stick with them for as long as the maps are around.
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses.
-Nosebane, Sorcerer Supreme
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Paxe
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Paxe »

I think that we are only making ourself one question: do I like this map? We
are not saying if it is balanced map or not.
I like a lot Horn Shark Island but is not a balanced map; if you play against a
good player with Undead faction is nearly impossible to win.

So, what do we want?

In my opinion anybody can play any map for a ladder game. Just have to
agree with his opponent. If there is no agrement everybody should load
last Q version with only balanced maps.

I would offer for working on new maps but actually with two childs
have not time...

Paxe
Best computer game ever played?...... Wesnoth, The Battle for Wesnoth, of course!
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