Ladder Site Online...

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SalsaRocoto
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Joined: November 5th, 2009, 12:34 pm

Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by SalsaRocoto » June 24th, 2011, 1:26 am

Hi everyone !

I would like to open a debate on a ladder rule today: the unique account rule
from ladder site FAQ:
You are only allowed to have one account. If you want to create a new account and delete your old please contact us and be ready to give eyerouge your password in order for us to verify that you're the real owner of the account that's about to be deleted.
Now as you all well know this rule is breached by most ladder players.

It even seems that there has been an epidemic of aliases recently: some examples

Tahargl: 1711, 15 games 12 wins
GodOfWar : 1711, 15 games 11 wins
DrakeLord : 1776, 16 games 11 wins
Exper: 1788, 39 games 29 wins
Kabuto: 1800, 15 games 15 wins
arbu: 1820, 30 games 23 wins
kodoku: 1833, 22 games 19 wins
pumpkin: 1851, 21 games 19 wins
Rene: 1879, 31 games 26 wins

Nobody in his right mind would think those are new ladder players ;-)

Now the reason the rule is here I guess is because the ELO system is biased if players are allowed multiple pseudo. This is why multiple pseudo is considered cheating in most games using ELO ratings.

Now how good is it to have a rule and let everyone breach it ?

I only see two possibilities remove the rule or enforce it.

What are your thoughts on the matter ?

Cheers

salsa

Oh, I forgot the one that motivated this post after watching him slaughter Zorro's loyalists with orcs.

peace: 1807, 9 games 8 wins

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tekelili
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by tekelili » June 24th, 2011, 2:39 am

lol, I never suspected I was fighting clone wars :P

I wonder what a guy get with duplicated ladder accounts to be so popular behavior :o
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
World Conquest II

DrakeLord
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Joined: June 14th, 2011, 1:52 pm

Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by DrakeLord » June 24th, 2011, 9:05 am

I think you younguns need more evidence before accusing people of cheating :) I don't see how a list of players with a high winning percentage against other average players is indicative of aliasing. Also, you assume everyone who might be decent at this game already joined the Ladder. This clearly isn't true since ladder was very lame back in the days, although nowadays it seems like the only semi-competitive sorta thing.

Just to clarify: this is my only active Ladder account.

silent
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Joined: February 20th, 2009, 5:53 am

Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by silent » June 24th, 2011, 10:41 am

I think it is up to the owner of an account/accounts to be honest about whether they have 1 or more accounts.

At the end of the day though, they may convince themselves otherwise, said account will always be a hollow shell of their actual efforts, and all the more sweeter to beat for the juicy ELO bonus they now harbour.

Additionally, It's also nicer just to have the one account just to see how far one has come since their humble beginnings of the ladder, from sitting in the 1400's to the rise into the 2000's and beyond (Which was a reason I've stayed with my one and only for so long, though now I've skewed that somewhat by sitting out of the game for so long... :( well that and because I took the rules seriously)

This may contribute to bias, and it would perhaps be nicer if this wasn't a problem, but going back to the ELO, it seems to me no different than taking out another high ranked player and being richly rewarded for doing so. They will pay out a similar ELO for the win, depending on where the victor is currently ranked, while suffering a just punishment (large loss of ELO) if they do lose.

The short version of this is that although not very moral of those who may do this, they still have similar risk and reward of ELO gain/loss when they win or lose, like the rest of us do.

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nani
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by nani » July 2nd, 2011, 11:48 am

SalsaRocoto wrote:What are your thoughts on the matter ?
Well, I don't believe many players in this list are really aliases, though I know peace is e.g. and
since I've always enjoyed investigating on them, I can say I have a NOC-list with more
than 15 entries, containing ladder admin(s) as well. :whistle:
Speaking for myself, I have three registered ladder nicks with the given intentions.
  1. leocrotta: serious one
  2. Demogorgon: multitasking one
  3. species_8472: mission x:0 (x→∞)
For the rule itself: If even ladder admins have multiple nicks, why should I care about the "rule".
Though if any admin got a problem with it, I wouldn't care if my accounts would be deleted.
(although I doubt any of the current ones has the power to do so...)

⁂ Start of Hibernation ⁂

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tekelili
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by tekelili » July 2nd, 2011, 12:18 pm

I never worried about duplicated accounts issue, and have np with it myself. But I have been thinking about it since SalsaRocoto bring it up, and I found a possible problem: If top players keep doing multiple accounts very often, may be we having risk of scare new players, as some of them could become unlucky and be defeated several times for 1500-1700 players (wich real skill is by far greater than that). Some of these players could become to think: "oh man, I thought I had some skill, but looks like I suck" and leave ladder games.

As I said, I have np myself, but I think we all are losing something everytime a ladder player becomes inactive. What do you think guys?
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
World Conquest II

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nani
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by nani » July 2nd, 2011, 12:46 pm

tekelili wrote:If top players keep doing multiple accounts very often, may be we having risk of scare new players, as some of them could become unlucky and be defeated several times for 1500-1700 players
I agree, but speaking for myself again (Demogorgon is the only account that is touched by this issue), take a look at all matches from Demogorgon.
  1. If you sort by reported, you can see, I have tried to play good and known players at the very begin.
  2. If you sort by loser rating, you can see the lower ranked players have played the ~2000 Demo, meaning they knew about its strength.
  3. In the whole <15% of all matches have been played against <1700 players (see 2.) and 40% against >2000 players.
Summing up, I was well aware of that issue, I tried to avoid it and I believe I did a good job.

Madlok
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Madlok » July 2nd, 2011, 5:20 pm

nani wrote: Speaking for myself, I have three registered ladder nicks with the given intentions.
  1. leocrotta: serious one
  2. Demogorgon: multitasking one
Nooo! You destroyed my world! :wink:
Quick bats are quick.

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Horus2
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Horus2 » July 2nd, 2011, 7:10 pm

nani wrote: Speaking for myself, I have three registered ladder nicks with the given intentions.
  1. leocrotta: serious one
  2. Demogorgon: multitasking one
Quite unbeleivable, i say. If that would be true, you wouldn't play the KOTF as the multitasker guy... let alone the verbal differences. So sorry, i can't be fooled so easily... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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nani
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by nani » July 2nd, 2011, 8:10 pm

Horus2 wrote:uite unbeleivable, i say. If that would be true, you wouldn't play the KOTF as the multitasker guy... let alone the verbal differences. So sorry, i can't be fooled so easily...
Joining the KotF with Demogorgon was indeed a mistake. Until it has started I have been multitasking pretty often, thus leo was passive iirc.
So instead of changing back to leo for serious KotF-play I joined as Demo, which I shouldn't have done.
Fooling guys with the verbal differences was in ladder a fun issue :) whilst in KotF a factor I wanted to maintain until the KotF was over
to surprisingly unleash the truth about the beast afterwards. :wink:

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Faello
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Faello » July 2nd, 2011, 8:40 pm

Interesting, I thought that having a multiple accounts on the ladder is strictly prohibited...

...if it's not, I don't see a point to be rated there.
The yellow jester does not play
but gently pulls the strings
and smiles as the puppets dance
in the court of the Crimson King.

Huumy
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Huumy » July 3rd, 2011, 11:14 am

I don't seen any problem having multiple accounts. When I play ladder game it's just a way to find player who don't leave after turn 3. I don't care much about the elo points I just want to have fun.
Earlier when I played more ladder I would not get discouraged by a devastating loss to any1. It was a challenge and I enjoyed it, I would find out why I lose, get my game better and try to get a rematch.

How I see it is for people who don't like the idea of multiple accounts (or hate playing vs underrated players) should just play more games to get better or play for fun and there would be no problem. :)

Imo.
"And the girl that you want is directly out in front, And she’s waving her caboose at you, You sneeze achoo, She calls you out and boom!"
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The Black Sword
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by The Black Sword » July 3rd, 2011, 3:04 pm

I pretty much agree with Huumy. After all what's the difference between a top ladder player starting with an alias and a top player who didn't previously play on the ladder creating an account?

So long as the aliases don't play each other I don't see a problem.

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Rigor
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Rigor » July 3rd, 2011, 5:43 pm

I have a NOC-list with more than 15 entries, containing ladder admin(s) as well.

could we please all see this list you have? at least from admin(s), that should be interesting. ill write something to the other points later, its just that i have too many other great things to do than discussing something as simple as "why should there be no aliases in a ranking system".

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nani
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by nani » July 3rd, 2011, 6:19 pm

Rigor wrote:at least from admin(s)
Don't remember all admins, at least Pelopidas has more than one registered nick.
I believe if I had the complete list of former and current admins, I could give you more.

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