The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

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Mabuse
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Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

well, the only exception is the pirate ship ;) :D

which got a 30-1 boarding attack instead (30 blade-damage is like 18 damage to a ship)

man i tell you the pirates are now nasty, not only they board two fencers, no, they also damage your ship while doing that -

so better get on high def terrain anyway ;) (one player already get screwed by a pirate ship - lol - as he used everything to defnd on deck (and trunning into drakes also :D) and the piratehsip just kept boarding - well i guess he was on low def terrain


EDIT: The tip going on high terrain is of course only valid if youz HAVE to fight the pirate at all costs (which should be generally avoided at all costs - at least in early stage of the game, since it also will draw all the MOWS on you) - so if you see an ai unit on main map, that you cant kill within one round, and that may see your ship - stay out of its sight, and it that is not possible - run, forest run


now i will work a bit on Verison 5, and also check some little things
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

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ylmson
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Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by ylmson »

Hey, I just played high seas with A New Land Era, and it was a whole lot more fun than I expected: reshaping terrains, build villages, even remodeling your own ships (yah, I know farming on a ship doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it is very fun!). The balancing also doesn't seem to be affected too much, since it takes quite a while to establish anything in ANL. Try it some time and see what you think! Maybe some mod to A New Land Era for The High Seas will make it even better. :P
"You may draw, even if you are no artist, and all you have is mspaint and a touchpad."

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Slann
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Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Slann »

ylmson wrote:Hey, I just played high seas with A New Land Era, and it was a whole lot more fun than I expected: reshaping terrains, build villages, even remodeling your own ships (yah, I know farming on a ship doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it is very fun!). The balancing also doesn't seem to be affected too much, since it takes quite a while to establish anything in ANL. Try it some time and see what you think! Maybe some mod to A New Land Era for The High Seas will make it even better. :P
Um, but this era change the map's spirit. I think this map is better with bobs rpg era or modular era....or any rpg era hehe
now i will work a bit on Verison 5, and also check some little things
umm.. what about a team points game?? :twisted:

Mabuse
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Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

Some Strategies:
-----------------

hehe, btw - how to kill Ships (even MOW) easy and in one single Turn :

"Headhunterstyle"

All you need is a Crew (normal Crew), additional Gangplank and about 10 Thugs.
(and in best case a Luitenant as Captain) - Nautical Maps is optional
(so all together (lets assume you get the Crew for the starting Gold "for free")
205 Gold, with Nautical Maps you need 235 Gold)

then you can start Hunting down Ships, all Ships will probably go down in one Round, provided they are on 40/50 % defense Hexes - (and you dont have extremely bad Luck)

go beside the ship it is absolutely nessessary that the hex whch is above the ship is somehow next to the other ship, also think that the next units will some out clockwise, this is important becasue you probably want your captain to support both your attacking thugs, as well also your ship -

but anyway - most imortant is to strike at night, then retaliation damage from MOW is lowest, stil most of your thugs wil get heavily wounded, but who cares anyway - they will heal 2 points per turn later (and killing a mow or an enemy Flagship is definately worth it)

then load out a thug, attack with it, and board it again. remember also to remove the gunners near the entry plank, since there will be also thugs later.

do this with all thugs, since you attack at night, they will all survive more or less wounded, and do, with aid of captain 7-4 damage.

remamber to make the thugs that get on the cannon places also gunners again.

if you are through with them all, let your ship finish the enemy ship off
grats to your kill !

hehe, i find this interesting because the game offers some nice strategies - of course headhunterstyle may work versus weaker ships (basically all except MOWS) also without captain very well - in that case your leader may be better going and raid somewhere


happy hunting
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

Using Dr Spock:
----------------

Since we all know that raided goods appear magically on your flagship, its a good Idea to move your flagship already to the port where you want to sell your good WHILE the raid is actually running. this can save you some turns.

this can be even done better, while your leader and some units (which are bought especially for that raid (never use crew for that - else you cant move your flagship away - besides it makes no sense to raid to early anyway, since there wont be enough resources to steal)) raid, your flagship already moves, and, after the raid is competed sells the resources - your leader and the surviving units form a "raiding team" and travel in a transport ship, while your flaghsip is maintaining a fleet, alwas when the raiding crew make a raid, the flagship can immediatly sell the reources and make the fleet bigger -

of course the same goes fort temple or other raids, with the exception that you dont have to sell units, in any case, the key here is to have two independently operating teams -

this allows you to fight and at the same time make income to maintain your fleet.

your raiding team maintains itself from taverns and such, it may also not hurt if you add a frigate or two.

the downside is that you cant supply your flagship with LANDunits, sicne only leader can recruit them
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

Good Starting:
---------------

it basically nonsense to finish a raid before round 12/14/16, since you dont have enough goods to steal, and the prices are also not very good. so its just a waste of energy and resources.

in the start its always good to grab some villages so that you get 4,6,8 or 10 gold every round - these will (together with the gold from the goods you already have at start) give you additonal cargo, units for raiding and such -

if you can and have the time, one of the best starts would be to raid a fort or a bank in the first 12 Turns. but dont risk anything, always avoid ai units like ships, cuttle, seasnakes and other thigs that can see your ship and draw attention - always run, run, run and change your plans

if you havent found a good place around round 10 you may start going raiding, maybe even earlier, since it may take a while to get there



that are the only things i can tell you, i am certain that there are even better players who think that this is all nonsense
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

trading:

trading makes extremely much sense, especially in the later game, becasue 16 goods of whatever resource will never cost more than 400 Gold, and can be always sold with 100% profit (and more) from round 25 on (provided you go to the right tradingports).

so before you are the one that raids the last production plant, better save soem bucks, buy some goods for 400 gold, use our fleet to guard the plant (and probably landunits too)

and just start trading ;)

of course that sounds easier than it is and often you still just raid and buy ships for everything, but remember as long there is a production plant, the gold from a bank or temple raid is enough to give you 16 goods and then you can make HUGE profit
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

Slann wrote: umm.. what about a team points game?? :twisted:
hmm, if you insist i may give it a try ;)

This basically cuts the VP points in half, so the game is over (by default) when things start to get funny

of course then i may also make new settings with higher team points

btw, one reason why "kill all leaders" wil never be a good setting for the map:
becasue it is possible that you teleport your leader (due to a fault or by will) into "void" where it cant get out, but can also never be killed - its of course bad for you if that happens to your leader, because you cant recruit new landunits -

but stil you can trade and build a fleet, and can claim to be undefeated, no matter what comes

for this reason i think Victory points are the way to go ;)
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

Mabuse wrote: "Headhunterstyle"
btw, a last note about that:

if you use it with a captain, make sure that you dont use more than 10/12 thugs, else your captain may get teleported into the void ;) (and i mean void surrounded by nothing than void) if you wanna board it back into the ship

i just mention it, i am sure you already knew it :lol2:
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

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ylmson
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Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by ylmson »

Mabuse wrote:if you use it with a captain, make sure that you dont use more than 10/12 thugs, else your captain may get teleported into the void ;) (and i mean void surrounded by nothing than void) if you wanna board it back into the ship
Or just use even more thugs :lol2:and teleport your leader straight to somebody else's transport ship! (how many thugs would you need for that? :roll: )
"You may draw, even if you are no artist, and all you have is mspaint and a touchpad."

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Sapient
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Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Sapient »

Mabuse wrote: for this reason i think Victory points are the way to go ;)
I think it would be good to update the objectives, so anyone who is not familiar with the game can see that by pressing Ctrl+J...
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."

Mabuse
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Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

ylmson wrote: Or just use even more thugs :lol2:and teleport your leader straight to somebody else's transport ship! (how many thugs would you need for that? :roll: )
quite a few, in any case using thugs for that would break your neck due to upkeep, and having your leader in enemy ship also -

but if you just wanna mess it up for fun i would suggest using ruffians for it ;)

btw, you had a solution for that, if you dont mind you may write the code here, so i can see if i implement it ( i guess it was something like if unit is at void after teleporting then it is teleported abck where it came from or something) --- this would of course reduce number of thugs useable for that in general
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

Sapient wrote: I think it would be good to update the objectives, so anyone who is not familiar with the game can see that by pressing Ctrl+J...
yes, this is a good Idea, to write all the changes in the Objectives since it saves a lot of writing at start of each game.

but not because of the Victory Points, because these have been implemented from the beginning on (in Original Version), and are basically the only thing which is mentioned in the Objectives

i just mentioned that i dont think "kill all leaders" is a good setting because it was mentioned that it would be good to "mod" the victory conditions to be independent of Victory Points (in case it gets fixed that a unit is teleported into void this will be again an option)


EDIT:
in Case i am worng, and it is not yet mentioned in the Victory Conditions, and just in the Pop -Up Menu at start of Round 2, then i will do it of course ;)

anyway, the victory menu in the end is anyway buggy, so this need also to get fixed
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse »

Mabuse wrote:Using Dr Spock:
btw, in one Game i remember i had a discussion with people who thought that this would be exploiting "a bug".

I wanna make my point on this more clear. First of all, it isnt a bug, it is the way it works in the game. so it more like the player has to adapt to the game, and not otherwise. be smart and adapt. or be dumb and go down

you may call it unrealistic, but thats anyway not the point - it also not realistic that if someone raids a temple somewhere, that the gold can be used in the same round on the other side of the map.

the people who call it unrealistic want that a unit has to carry the goods from the production plant to the flagship. ok, but this wont make it more realistic if a single unit carries for example the resources that fill a ships cargo - there are so many unrealistic things. (of course you can use a single unit for each resource unit, then a raid takes about 10 turns, hurray, makes no sense to watch your units carrying stuff to a ship right ?, you want to get a fleet/cash and have some fun.)

so realism cant be a reason here.

on the other hand GAMEPLAY is a reason to let things as they are -
"dr spock" helps to speed up the gameplay, which takes anyway quite some time (and i only play the game with 4 players, with 6 players it wil be a real pain in matter of time i guess), so for me its all about gameplay here.

- theres nothing wrong in terms of gameplay shipping to a coast, unboard your leader (who then recruits his troops in the local tavern or barracks), maybe buying in the shipyard a cargoupgrade (becasue you never know when you get to the next shipyard (if the city dont have one then you have to sail to a shipyard anyway ;) !! - or buy it before) and then sail of to the place where you wanna sell it, or grab some villages (or escaping MOWs or other player ;)) while your leader(+units) raids something

so keeping it, is good for gameplay, offers different strategies (of course when you cut off your leader from your flagship, then it cant be supplied with units anymore, has less sight and move)

on the other hand if you go the "realistic" way, then you make it just slower and much harder, "hheadhunters" can kill your ship on the shore and have a much easier time to find you. should MOWS come up, and you have to run anyway with your ship (else you get sunk, which happens regularly to al who dont run) and that can then mess up the entire game.
MOWS are bad enough becasue you must run, but if they then mess up your whole game, just because you was in wrong place at wrong time its dumb - you can always escape the MOWS

so making it "realistic" adds nothing to the gameplay, it will have the complete opposite effect making it more clumsy. the game is no simulation of real life. i can only recommend here to grow up ;)

this comes also often from people who are not that familiar with the game and find it strange that MOWS, pirates and sea-monsters and landmonsters "work" together. if that wouldnt be the case, then the MOWS would never see anything anyway.
Luckily i will also implement an explenation via Game Story, this is of course because "Estiban Gaol" holds a dark secret and for that they are allied and work together :P. So you can wonder, but theres a good explanation for that - see Version5 for more.

using a BUG would be like messing up the game with tons of ruffians that you teleport into the void to get to raiding items without doing much (but i have made this to be more difficult to do (so just feel free to do it - lol - in best case i will prevent it, via WML)
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

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governor
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Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by governor »

Mabuse, when you get a chance go through the cfg files (yes even the macros/ ) and find all the [scroll_to] wml and add the line check_fogged=true. This will prevent players from seeing events with a scroll_to in it underneath fog.

Or you can grab these files and replace them in your v4 (replace files of the same name, 4 of them in the macros dir):
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fog_fix.zip
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