The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

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Slann
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Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Slann » March 22nd, 2008, 8:59 pm

The bug that allows you to move much and have many cannons still works :( .Bob, save us!

:::EDIT:::
Sorry, it isnt a bug. The server was a few crazy. Now the problem has left.

But, when is the new version :mrgreen: ???

Mabuse
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Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse » March 30th, 2008, 8:39 pm

HI !

I think this Scenario is wonderful, still i missed building a Fleet and crush other Players (and the MOWs) and such, so i made a slight MOD, which is only a small Tribute to this Wonderful Game-Idea. It may be possible that i make another Map for that Game, but i think that the current Map is already very nice, balanced, and that it works very well. And making a Map (containing all the things the current Map contains) is of course also Work quite a lot more Work than this slight MOD ;)

Anyway, here we go:


Simply extract the Files in this Archive into your ...\Wesnoth 1.4\userdata\data\campaigns - Folder, and restart Wesnoth
HF


Changes contain:
--------------------------


- buy Frigates at Shipyard (cost 100 Gold, 100HP, 8-5 ranged Impact, 20-1 ranged pierce, 9 Movement)
- buy Galleons at Shipyard (cost 250 Gold, 120HP, 10-8 ranged Impact, 6-4 ranged pierce, 10 Movement)
these Ships cannot be boarded and cannot carry Cargo


- also Leader can buy Frigates/Galleons at Shipyard


- 2 Temples are avaialable, there are now 2 Temples on the Map, one in North and one in South.
Both are well guarded and provide 1000 Gold cash on Hand if raided


- Banks provide 500 Gold cash on Hand if raided


- more Settings for Games with Higher Victory Points, since 50 Points can be reached pretty quickly (recommended is 100 or even 150)


- Villages provide 1 Gold income
(which is helpful, but still Raids and Trading are main Income Source)
note here: Goods can be only carried by a Flagship, so this is most important, if Flagship is sunk, you can only raid Temples and Banks for better income


- slighty toned down Price development for Goods. Still very good Profits can be made.

High Profits (around Number of Turns x 3 (+X)) :
Rum: Frodom, Alsom, Slatham
Jewels: Quati, Negal
Spice: ----
Slaves: ----

Medium Profits (around Number of Turns x 2 (+X)):
Rum: Trutt, Ravin
Jewels: Wurdle, Mandor, Ganton
Spice: Quati, Negal, Frodom
Slaves: all

all other is exspected to be low Profit for the certain Resources
Locations with Producting Plants are "below low" Profit for that Resource that is produced there.

so for example around Turn 25 you can exspect to sell your Rum for around 75 Gold per Barrel in Slatham
which makes an income of 1200 Gold if you sell 16 Barrels (well, not exactly, since the price will drop by two per barrel sold, but still its impressive)



- Prices for other Equipment dropped a bit. Some Stuff is very useful, so check it out.
And dont forget to buy additional Cargo-Space for the certain resource if you wanna raid something ;)




HF with this nice Game form Bob the Mighty
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The_High_Seas_Naval_Battle.zip
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Last edited by Mabuse on March 30th, 2008, 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Aethaeryn
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Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Aethaeryn » March 30th, 2008, 8:54 pm

It would be great if you could buy/appoint a replacement flagship if yours sinks, if you're going for the fleet approach...
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Mabuse
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Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse » March 30th, 2008, 8:56 pm

Aethaeryn wrote:It would be great if you could buy/appoint a replacement flagship if yours sinks, if you're going for the fleet approach...
good Idea, should be possible to make

i knew i forget something :D ...


something like "if no flagship then option in shipyard to buy flagship pop up"
(actually its the "leadyard" then, since if you step with a leader on shipyard you use the "leadyard" options)
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

Dratsab
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Joined: August 7th, 2007, 3:24 am

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Dratsab » March 30th, 2008, 9:32 pm

I'm thinking of messing around and modding this. The mods I have in mind are:
(1) Somehow a surviving unit becomes the new captain when you lose your captain (i.e. via player selection, or random).
(2) Being able to buy/steal a new flagship (i.e. buy with gold, or if not enough gold, you can attempt to steal from a trading post - maybe a 1/3rd chance each time). Maybe chaotic captains steal ships/press gang crews, while lawful captains can convince the town to give them the ship to attack the mean bad pirate player #3, neutral either, I dunno.
(3) Disable Victory Points as a means to win; instead death of all other captains.
(4) If you destroy a ship, move over the wreck and can loot a modest amount of trade goods/gold.

I'd like to build upon the improvements posted earlier in this thread, and to make 1/2/3 options to be selected at the start of the game (#4 will only be modest loot).

I got some other ideas, specifically in regards to an option to make the map perpetual (i.e. other players can join midgame). This is mainly because too many times you start and then by turn 8 everyone quits, meanwhile you got several observers who want to join in but the people who quit suicided themselves and then people don't want to take over the abandoned team.

Any thoughts? Complaints? Don't want me to touch anything? I've modded some stuff but not Wesnoth, so I'm not sure how I'd handle some things, but 1-4 seem pretty easy based on what im looking at in the code.

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Slann
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Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Slann » March 30th, 2008, 9:59 pm

Dratsab, you'll be my hero. The most important point is the second. The third point could be choose near the others winning options.

Other thing, Man of War are really powerfull. And if one follow you, prepare yourself to a complety horde of Man of War. You can change it damages, or movement.

Mabuse
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Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse » March 30th, 2008, 10:13 pm

ok i added an Option to buy a new Flagship in Shipyard (with Leader) in Case the former gets destroyed (for 300 Gold, all former Upgrades will be kept)


Changes contain:
--------------------------


- buy Frigates at Shipyard (cost 100 Gold, 100HP, 8-5 ranged Impact, 20-1 ranged pierce, 9 Movement)
- buy Galleons at Shipyard (cost 250 Gold, 120HP, 10-8 ranged Impact, 6-4 ranged pierce, 10 Movement)
these Ships cannot be boarded and cannot carry Cargo


- also Leader can buy Frigates/Galleons at Shipyard
- also Leader can buy a new Flag-Ship with all former Upgrades in Case you lost your FlagShip for 300 Gold


- 2 Temples are avaialable, there are now 2 Temples on the Map, one in North and one in South.
Both are well guarded and provide 1000 Gold cash on Hand if raided


- Banks provide 500 Gold cash on Hand if raided


- more Settings for Games with Higher Victory Points, since 50 Points can be reached pretty quickly


- Villages provide 1 Gold income
(which is helpful, but still Raids and Trading are main Income Source)
note here: Goods can be only carried by a Flagship, so this is most important, if Flagship is sunk, you can only raid Temples and Banks for better income


- slighty toned down Price development for Goods. Still very good Profits can be made.

High Profits (around Number of Turns x 3 (+X)) :
Rum: Frodom, Alsom, Slatham
Jewels: Quati, Negal
Spice: ----
Slaves: ----

Medium Profits (around Number of Turns x 2 (+X)):
Rum: Trutt, Ravin
Jewels: Wurdle, Mandor, Ganton
Spice: Quati, Negal, Frodom
Slaves: all

all other is exspected to be low Profit for the certain Resources
Locations with Producting Plants are "below low" Profit for that Resource that is produced there.

so for example around Turn 25 you can exspect to sell your Rum for around 75 Gold per Barrel in Slatham
which makes an income of 1200 Gold if you sell 16 Barrels (well, not exactly, since the price will drop by two per barrel sold, but still its impressive)



- Prices for other Equipment dropped a bit. Some Stuff is very useful, so check it out.

hehe, now theres Time for some big Sea Battles :D
Attachments
The_High_Seas_Naval_BattleV2.zip
(51.28 KiB) Downloaded 208 times
Last edited by Mabuse on March 30th, 2008, 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse » March 30th, 2008, 10:20 pm

Slann wrote: Other thing, Man of War are really powerfull. And if one follow you, prepare yourself to a complety horde of Man of War. You can change it damages, or movement.
they should be powerful, and they are already sluggish, it should be no big problem to avoid them, but it may still messes up your plans, so you have to change them

once you have a good navy they can be defeated but will still do heavy damage to your ships

and i think its ok that they are the strongest ships in game.
show respect to the royal navy :lol2:
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse » March 30th, 2008, 10:39 pm

btw, since its ok, to buy flagship with all the upgrades (if you bought some (becasue i dont plan to mess around with all the upgraded stuff) -- but at least the carried GOODS need to be deleted if the flagship is destroyed, so i guess i may fix that the GOODS are deleted in case the flagship sinks. 8)
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

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Slann
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Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Slann » March 30th, 2008, 11:38 pm

you have fixed the bomb bug? when you use it, the game quit.

The problem of Man of war, is that you are going to die if one see you. THen, the others follow your ship. And you have much lucky if you space from they. But scape isnt the same as be out of danger. On a few turns, theyll appear again to [censored] your dreams. On my High Seas games, iv never got much money to buy other ships.

can you make a team game?? all the points going to a team, not to an individual player.

btw, great job :wink: . If you need help, ill give you
Last edited by Slann on March 31st, 2008, 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mabuse
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Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse » March 30th, 2008, 11:59 pm

hehe, i never used bombs so far - (but i guess its fixed ;))
will test it in the game i am going to run now 8)

btw, here is the current version, if a flagship sinks, then all rum, jewels, spices, slaves, potions and bats are deleted (set to 0).

all units onboard should be also deleted, but i cant give guarantee atm if thats is true for all ai units

@Slann
and i know the problem with MOW, but you simply have to stay out of line of sight of EVERY ai unit (except units in plantations and other locations), if there is a unit that you can kill in one turn, ok kill it - in all other cases simply run, run, run - until they find another target.

well, someone always gets in trouble, since you cant always avoid being seen, the question is if you can escape :D
i remember there was a great game i played when a bunch of MOW chased me over the map, but you can always run away from them, also question is if no other ai unit sees you ;)
Attachments
The_High_Seas_Naval_BattleV21.zip
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The best bet is your own, good Taste.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse » March 31st, 2008, 11:03 am

btw, i found out (while reding this Thread) that slave things dont work, and also in my Version (from add-on server) the lifeboat is buggy.

however i could fix it with Karo's building-cfg, and what can i say ...

... i dont like the lifeboat, it could be way more useful if i could be boarded, but i also see a need for an extern available transport ship (in case your flagship has sunk, you dont have enough money to buy one and the next temple or bank that could be raided is faaar away. travelling by land is no option)

so i decide to cut out all slaves things, and the lifeboat.

and make a small barque availabe at shipyard (both for Flagship and leader to buy) and also at tradingport (since there are just so few shipyrads (which is good in first place - as it makes them strategically more important, but doesnt help here)

of course you can also have just one transport-barque at the same time

with this actions like leader is rading somewhere, while flagship with your fleet is fighting at another place very well possible.

also i reduce the costs for a new Flagship to 250, since it also need a crew and stuff, so its alsready pretty expensive

the barque can be boarded of course, and will have 80HP, 10 - 2 ranged Impact, and cost about 50 Gold and you can only have one at a time
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse » March 31st, 2008, 12:08 pm

btw, i got a PM from Dratsab, i dont think its a tragedy if i mention it, and while reading his suggestions i had some nice ideas

and we can also discuss it here on the Forum, no need to PM, so others can also join the discussion

So far I created (and tested) a macro which allows you to select a new captain if your captain dies, wondering if you were interested in incorporating that into your version
hehe, sure, sounds nice.

also if you like you could add an Option that disables the Victory Points so yo need to kill all enemy leaders (in this case the "select new leader option" should be disabled though, else the game turn into a "search the last man")
Basically, I'm torn between: (1) giving ships the ability to salvage -some- loot from shipwrecks; (2) expanding the map; (3) adding more places to explore/ships to board; (4) giving a non-gold means of getting a new flagship; (5) respawning monsters over time; or (6) having mines/distilleries/plantations recover eventually after being raided.
1) ok, its a nice thing, shouldnt be more than 10-15 gold though (and only once be available), so its a nice little add, but nothing "game-deciding"

2)+3) expanding the map is possible and the basic requirement for adding new places to explore/ships to board.

the disadvanatge with more ships to board is in my opinion that you really need a special ship type (with a special "label" at least) for evey ship you can board

i will add a transportship instead of the lifeboat (which i find crappy), since there is a need being able to transport your men ieven if you have no flagship, and transporting men independent of the flagship (which can also recruit ships as well as the leader) offers new strategical elements (for example you may raid a location somewhere, and your flagship already moves to the port where it may sell it for the most profit - and most important after that: your raidingcrew is not stuck there after that, and you flagship dont need to go back all the way) - beyond that i dont see real need to have more ships that can be boarded, ok, maybe 2 transport-ships could be also ok ;)

so expanding map for new location, ok, is possible - i see need for a location which "produces slaves for example, since the slave things dont work (of course in this case the prices for slaves need to be overworked for the locations) - maybe i will also work on this

4) hmm, dont know - getting your flagship without money may end up with flagship being recklessly used in battle - you lose it - so what ? i get the next one for free.

i am sceptical about this, since with the transportship it should be possible to get to a temple or bank (or even other things on an expanded map) and raid it.


5) over the time you will get more and more mighty, so respawning monsters in the later game will just feed Victory points, which can be annoying if a "weak enemy" (in comparion to you) just evades you all the time to grab cheap victory points by killing resawning monsters, which dont pose to be a threat in later stages of the game anyway - for this reason i also dont respawn MOW, finally in the late stage of the game if you select a setting with high Victory points its all about PvP, and not anymore against AI -

so i am sceptical about this, since its not about fighting mindless ai in the later stage of the game (in my opinion)



6)
i would like to see more locations added, 2 slave producing plants (slave markets) and maybe 2 more (but different) temples or something (of course slave cage is still a requirement to have to be able to trade with slaves)

for the producing plants i dont suggest they recover for being raided again (so a location can be only raided once), but still may produce goods (maybe slower - just 1 resource unit per 2 turns), so you can still buy resource at that location and sell it somewhere else for huge profit

so after all was raided, you may really keep a minimum amount of chash (lets say 1000$) and use this for trading (and also buy new flagship ;) since theres nothing left to raid when you run out of money)) - if you buy rum at negal for 25 buck the barrel and sell it at frodom for 75 bucks a barrell its a huge profit

for extreme profit something like that can be imagined, you raid a ceratin location, get 16 resource units of a certain resource, sell it at a distant port with maximum profit, and immediatly after that you buy 16 barrels of the resource you can get there, then you travel back where you came from and sell the resources again :D:D:D - - the intial raid is only to get things "rolling" (by now you cant buy things then again, since after the location was raied it wont produce goods anymore, then oyu have to search (and probably guard) a location with a non-raided producing plant)



so thats in first place only my opnion, nothing is carved in stone or something ;)

so after all, lets work together, and see what we can make :D
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse » March 31st, 2008, 12:50 pm

Mabuse wrote:for the producing plants i dont suggest they recover for being raided again (so a location can be only raided once), but still may produce goods (maybe slower - just 1 resource unit per 2 turns)
btw, to keep it simple i'd suggest to let the Producing Plant simply produce at a normal rating (1resource per round), but of course it cant be raided anymore.

although this would also destroy an important element of the game, the need to protect a location from being raided if you plan to use it for trading - and also the benfit from destroying another players trading route

on the other hand trading is not possible anymore if there are no more producing plants left -

so .... its difficult to evaluate, with 2 more producing plants (slaves) it may get better, and we dont need to change something about that

in the end, with all producing plants and all temples detroyed only banks remain as another income source, and if all banks are destroyed then its players fault :D

the danger i see with "reraidable" locations is VictoryPoint farming again, since raiding is not really difficult to do. beside that it really takes an important strategical aspect from the game away


my conclusion:
------------

so after all, i dont think we should change this, if all locations are raided, then its players fault - the one player that manage to protect a producing plant and guard it, and establish a monopol on it, is able to trade and have an advantage over other players. (provided he is wise enough to keep some money in his pocket - and eben if you have none, then organize an expedition to raid a temple :D)

this may be an important strategical element
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: The High Seas (Naval MP Scenario)

Post by Mabuse » March 31st, 2008, 1:05 pm

Mabuse wrote: 5) over the time you will get more and more mighty, so respawning monsters in the later game will just feed Victory points, which can be annoying if a "weak enemy" (in comparion to you) just evades you all the time to grab cheap victory points by killing resawning monsters, which dont pose to be a threat in later stages of the game anyway - for this reason i also dont respawn MOW, finally in the late stage of the game if you select a setting with high Victory points its all about PvP, and not anymore against AI -

so i am sceptical about this, since its not about fighting mindless ai in the later stage of the game (in my opinion)
last but not least i dont like the idea that tons of respawning MOW'S (and single mow's are just "Victory point fodder") decide the battle between two players becasue the MOW'S weaken or destroy huge parts of a players ships and the other player than exploits the situation
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

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