Orcish Assassins

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Weeksy
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Orcish Assassins

Post by Weeksy »

I'm just wondering if there's any specific reason ('we forgot' or 'it's for balance reason X' are acceptable reasons) that the orcish assassin has the full elusivefoot movetype, and not just 1 MP to move over hills... Is its 6 MP slower than the other orcs on hills or something? I dunno, it seems unintuitive.
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Elvish_Pillager
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
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appleide
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Post by appleide »

Agreed with Weeksy.

But to keep the game in balance.... :!:
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irrevenant
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Post by irrevenant »

Elvish Pillager wrote:Been discussed before :P
All that happened before my time. It's an interesting read.

Given all the other changes that have happened in Wesnoth over the last 3 years it seems reasonable to revisit the question now. Besides, back then 1.0 would've been in sight so people would've been trying to bed things down, not change them.

I tend to agree with EP and Weeksy, but if it requires a rebalancing of the faction to pull off it's probably not worth the trouble.
Weeksy
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Post by Weeksy »

In general I think it's fairly balanced the way it is, I just want to know if there can be some in-game way of explaining it...
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F8 Binds...
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Post by F8 Binds... »

Even if the unit is balanced as it is, the only thing I see going against such a change would be if it "Made the game unbalanced." Or some other twist like that. If if makes sense to make it 1 MP over hills and 2 MP over mountains, and there's nothing balance-wise going against this, it absolutely makes sense to make the change. Besides, I doubt any orcs are "trained" anyways. You don't have to tell one how to swing a club. I doubt there is any obvious reason that the assassin, of all units should be slower in it's favored terrain. Look at elves- they are elusive and "Stealthy" like the assassin, but they still get 1 MP in their favored terrain. Perhaps this is a flawed example, but...

I vote for the change.
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Clonkinator
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Post by Clonkinator »

I always found it a little weird that the assassin, the elusive unit of the orcs, is slower in it's prefered terrain than all the other orcs. This means, I don't mind if it's changed, but I also won't get cranky if it isn't.
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Noyga
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Post by Noyga »

While the unit is well balanced, being slower on hills than most orcs looks a little weird.
Btw simply allowing it to move faster on hills (which is a very common terrain) will greatly speed up the unit (that is already quite fast). Maybe it is ok, maybe it is too much...
If it is done, this change might need to be balanced by some reduction in power of the unit.
We could probably balance this change by reducing its movement from 6 to 5, but this would have a great effect on the role of the unit in the faction.
Currently, this unit is often used as a secundary scout for the faction, so reducing its move to 5 would deny this role.
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Elvish_Pillager
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Its price could be increased.
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Post by Clonkinator »

Elvish Pillager wrote:Its price could be increased.
Seconded. That's a good idea.
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appleide
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Post by appleide »

Clonkinator wrote:
Elvish Pillager wrote:Its price could be increased.
Seconded. That's a good idea.
Thirded.
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Post by Agent Jack Bauer »

appleide wrote:
Clonkinator wrote: Seconded. That's a good idea.
Thirded.
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This plot to alter the Assassin isn't going to succeed.
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jb
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Post by jb »

The MP team discussed this issue and decided basically if it's not broken don't fix it. There will be no change to the Assassin move type.
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Weeksy
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Post by Weeksy »

As I said before, I think it's balanced and should stay that way. But could we please get a good explanation for thy this is the way it is? "It's stealthy" doesn't really seem to fit, especially as those humans in the stealthy elusivefoot line are faster than their human counterparts in both water movement and average MP, and the one elf line I consider being truly 'stealthy', the ranger line, is of a faster variety than the fighter line, and does get better movement in certain situations.
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Post by Rhuvaen »

Weeksy wrote:But could we please get a good explanation for thy this is the way it is?
Alright: why do orcs move better in hills in the first place? Perhaps because they are used to being pushed by their commanders to the limits of their endurance. Now while that is true for the orcish soldier, the assassins - who are sort of anarchic, para-military forces - don't undergo the usual drill, instead opting for a more cunning and physically less demanding profession.
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