Dov's MP Pack - Now with Shops Era

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

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Sombra
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Post by Sombra »

I think that its a disadvantage for the evil side that only creatures of the night spawn in "cutthroat" next think is that factions without a "navy have a huge disadvantage on this map...(iMHO)

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Dovolente
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Post by Dovolente »

Sombra wrote::oops: Silly question. Where can I find the maps for 1.36 Dovolente? I cant find them on the download for extensions.
Not so silly. But they are only on the 1.2 add-on server, as that is where the MP action is. I can (or will have to) upgrade to 1.3 and adjust the maps and such when 1.3 becomes the stable version and 1.2 goes away.
Sombra wrote:I think that its a disadvantage for the evil side that only creatures of the night spawn in "cutthroat"
When I originally made Cutthroat, having Spearmen and Elvish Archers crawling out of ruins seemed a little too odd. But since MP isn't about immersive realism but strategy and competitive play, and the ruins aren't exactly seen as haunted or evil-infested ruins but as spawn points, you make a good point. I've heard this from a few other players as well.
For the next version, I'll vary the spawns (and change the ruins to castles, I guess).
Sombra wrote:... next think is that factions without a "navy have a

huge disadvantage on this map...(iMHO)
I wouldn't say huge. Ghosts and skeles can hold the water village pretty well against nagas and mers. Drakes have enough mobility and offensive punch to contest the water village. Maybe undead and drakes have some some disadvantage, but if so it is minor IMO.
Knalgans don't have as good an answer because of the griffin cost, but they are the toughest to dislodge in the contested corners (with hill village + mountain + hill), which I think mitigates their water disadvantage.

Sombra
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Post by Sombra »

Thx for the answers. For me its right now the most fun 3p map.

Excellent idea to mix free for all with survivor

When one human player is killed the spawns in his area are stopped or did I simply miss where the spawns are going?

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Dovolente
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Post by Dovolente »

Sombra wrote:When one human player is killed the spawns in his area are stopped or did I simply miss where the spawns are going?
Fixed. I also fixed a message that popped up on the wrong turn, and changed the spawns so that lawful spawn from one castle, and chaotic from the other.

Nosmos
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Post by Nosmos »

i play with 1.2.5 under windows and orcia
the dialoges that pop up if a players leader dies take ages to go away
in longer games i waited 10 minutes and more and nothing did happen ;)
perhaps it would be better to remove them

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F8 Binds...
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Post by F8 Binds... »

I have noticed a problem with the map, Cutthroat.

Generally, in map making, it is invalid to have mountains next to villages. It gives knalgans a relatively large advantage. An ulfserker can kill a unit from that mountain on that village. I feel that even though this is a survival, it gives them a slightly unfair advantage in player vs player combat here.

If you need know why that's unbalanced, I suggest you do a forums seach on it. I can't try to justify every word I say. :wink:
Proud creator of 4p- Underworld. Fascinated by Multiplayer design and balance.
I am the lone revenant of the n3t clan.

Sombra
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Post by Sombra »

F8 Bind its hard to tell if the map is balanced. Please consider that speed is a mayor advantage because you need to close the gap between your frontlines and the enemies for a surprise attack before the enxt AI spawn attacks you from behind.

Next thing is the Dwarves miss units to hold the watervillages. Therefore I think its fair if the dwarves have a possibility to attack from the flanks.

Cutthroat with the addition of AMOK AI spawns adds some nice twists to the dynamics of the game.

I would like that it would be easier to attack other players. Right now its a big disadvantage to attack s the AI attacks the wounded and retreating troops and the borders are easily defended

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Dovolente
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Post by Dovolente »

F8 Binds... wrote:I have noticed a problem with the map, Cutthroat.

Generally, in map making, it is invalid to have mountains next to villages. It gives knalgans a relatively large advantage. An ulfserker can kill a unit from that mountain on that village. I feel that even though this is a survival, it gives them a slightly unfair advantage in player vs player combat here.

If you need know why that's unbalanced, I suggest you do a forums seach on it. I can't try to justify every word I say. :wink:
I think, as I stated earlier, that yes, that gives them an advantage, but that it helps mitigate other disadvantages knalgans have on the map. I'll ask for more input on the issue though, and may adjust the corners in the future.

I've actually revised the Orocia map twice because of the knalgan advantage. The "shrine ringed with mountains" premise is not easy to pull off while keeping knalgans balanced, and I actually resized the entire map last week. I may tweak this futher (but I'm very attached to the solitary mountain village on the far side of the river :P ).

Also, re: the chess faction ideas you sent, thanks for the ideas, but I've decided against having sides with differing units. In fact, I'm going to drop Alliance Chess from the next update because I can't reach a satisfactory balance, and I'd rather work on other things. :) Elf chess, with the same units on each side, seems to be playing nicely though.

You're welcome to use whatever you'd like from the concept and WML, and develop your own multi-faction chess, of course. I'd be interested to see how it turned out. :)
Nosmos wrote: play with 1.2.5 under windows and orcia
the dialoges that pop up if a players leader dies take ages to go away
in longer games i waited 10 minutes and more and nothing did happen :Wink:
perhaps it would be better to remove them
Fixed, and I've uploaded the fix to the latest pack (v 0.3.2). Thanks.

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F8 Binds...
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Post by F8 Binds... »

BTW, me and weeksy came up with some good Drake chess, Loyalist Chess, and Merman Chess ideas. The Drake one looks particularly interesting. :)
Proud creator of 4p- Underworld. Fascinated by Multiplayer design and balance.
I am the lone revenant of the n3t clan.

Nosmos
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Post by Nosmos »

Dovolente wrote: Fixed, and I've uploaded the fix to the latest pack (v 0.3.2). Thanks.
thx works fine now :)

WK1
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Post by WK1 »

I was just playing elf chess with someone. I liked it a lot. I'm looking for the map, but this is the only page I can find, and you did not include a link to it.

How can I get Elf Chess?

Weeksy
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Post by Weeksy »

It's under Dovs_MP_Maps on the Addon server... Speaking of Elf Chess, F8 and I have made some other chesses, such as drake chess or merman chess... do people want these uploaded here?
If enough people bang their heads against a brick wall, The brick wall will fall down

WK1
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Post by WK1 »

Got it. Thanks Weeksy.

About your merman/drake chess games, they might be fun. There is only one way we can find out.

WK1
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Elf Chess

Post by WK1 »

I found a bug in Elf Chess. When you win, the game continues. I have attached a patch to fix it. Basically, you don't want to turn the king to stone. You just want to let him die, so the game can end.

I have a few recommendations to make the game more chess-like:
1) White and Green? How about White and Black?
2) You put the pieces in the wrong places. Specifically, you got the Black (Green) King and Queen mixed up.

I noticed that the circles that turns from green to red to indicate that a piece can't move, don't always do so. Specifically, if you move twice, then the circle of the second piece turns red, but all of the other ones remain green, until the mouse moves over them. This may be a limitation in the engine. I thought I should mention it.
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Dovolente
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Re: Elf Chess

Post by Dovolente »

WK1 wrote:I found a bug in Elf Chess. When you win, the game continues. I have attached a patch to fix it. Basically, you don't want to turn the king to stone. You just want to let him die, so the game can end.
That's a feature! :P I prefer to not be kicked out of the game after the checkmate message--which should be a clear enough indication that the game is over. It's nice to be able to do some post-checkmate chat about the game and look at the map/board while doing so. If this seems too confusing for most people, then I will consider changing it.
WK1 wrote:I have a few recommendations to make the game more chess-like: 1) White and Green? How about White and Black?
Of my actual chess sets at home, one out of three is white and black. The others are light brown/dark brown, and gold/silver.

In the first version I made, "alliance chess", the colors were white and black, and those seemed fitting as I used pieces from the Great War scenarios from the light/lawful and dark/chaotic sides. For elf chess, white and green seemed thematically a more appropriate choice to me.
WK1 wrote:2) You put the pieces in the wrong places. Specifically, you got the Black (Green) King and Queen mixed up.
Good point. :oops: I'll fix that when I next update the Map Pack.
WK1 wrote:I noticed that the circles that turns from green to red to indicate that a piece can't move, don't always do so. Specifically, if you move twice, then the circle of the second piece turns red, but all of the other ones remain green, until the mouse moves over them. This may be a limitation in the engine. I thought I should mention it.
I've noticed that too--I don't know of a way to fix that as it does seem to be an engine thing.

Glad you like the map--thanks for the feedback. :)

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