SurvivalXtreme: Version C.01!
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On another note, loading a game of SurvivalXtreme that was saved in text-mode (i.e. with binary saves unchecked in the advanced options dialog of wesnoth) was broken due to incorrect use of array variables (wesnoth does not support arrays of scalar types). Find attached a modification of version 1.10a that fixes this issue by turning "armors" and "killbonus" into ordinary variables.
- Attachments
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SurvivalXtreme_macros.cfg.gz- (8.32 KiB) Downloaded 325 times
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Clonkinator
- Posts: 676
- Joined: July 20th, 2006, 4:45 pm
- Location: Germany
...heck... it almost looks like I'll have to do a complete repricing of the weapons...meriton wrote:Yes, but it is a temporary disadvantage. Yes, the hero will be more fragile in the early game, but having multiple damage types (and especially weapon specials such as magical or drain) is invaluable in the late game.Actually, if playing with the standard gold setting, do you even realize how much of a disadvantage it is to have less gold than usual to spend, even if in trade for another weapon?
For instance, my standard way of playing is to buy the cold drain melee attack for 40 gold and the magical impact melee attack for 45 gold. There is no opponent in SurvivalXtreme that isn't sensitive to either impact or cold, life drain allows free healing and magical effective leader assault. Yes, surviving the early game is tricky; I always stay within reach of a shop and heal frequently. But once the early game is over, I can attack anything, and often win around turn 70 by killing all leaders.
Complicated in the terms of WML-coding. However, as I said, I don't like this idea very much. That's why I think the benefit is low.meriton wrote:Complicated in terms of WML coding, or in terms of rule complexity as perceived by players? If the coding is the issue: I'm willing to do it. And why do you think the benefit is low?
Well, I think I'll do that. I don't feel like making the game harder for single players however. Heck, I'll have to reprice everything...meriton wrote:Also I thought some more about giving gold of a kill to all players. Unlike diminishing returns, this would not address the issue that SurvivalXtreme is easier with less players. Hence, players have an interest in the team mates dieing, which hardly fosters cooperation ...
Sorry for my stupidness, but I don't really get what's wrong. I'll check it out, however.meriton wrote:On another note, loading a game of SurvivalXtreme that was saved in text-mode (i.e. with binary saves unchecked in the advanced options dialog of wesnoth) was broken due to incorrect use of array variables (wesnoth does not support arrays of scalar types). Find attached a modification of version 1.10a that fixes this issue by turning "armors" and "killbonus" into ordinary variables.
Check out the rewritten VariablesWML on the wiki; it is my best attempt at explaining how variables work. The answer to what is wrong with the old implementation of armors and killbonus can be deduced from the Kinds of Variables section by observing that a variable named armors[1] must be a container variable, but it is used as if it were a scalar one. For most tags, that works fine, but it break the syntax of the savefile wml, causing loading a text save game to fail with a WML syntax error.
Since the bug only manifests if a wesnoth setting (binary saves) is manually changed, it is not that important to fix, but since it wasn't difficult either, I went ahead and did it.
Since the bug only manifests if a wesnoth setting (binary saves) is manually changed, it is not that important to fix, but since it wasn't difficult either, I went ahead and did it.
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Clonkinator
- Posts: 676
- Joined: July 20th, 2006, 4:45 pm
- Location: Germany
Alright. However, I worked into the night to get SX to version 1.11. There are many major changes. Almost anything has been repriced, especially the weapons. Gold gained by kills and chests is halved and then gained by every player. However, this doesn't apply to chests dropped by dead players because that would create the possiblity to cheat gold. Bosses are now clearly marked as bosses, and also give more gold than common enemies if defeated. Check it out on the campaign server, just as always.meriton wrote:Check out the rewritten VariablesWML on the wiki; it is my best attempt at explaining how variables work. The answer to what is wrong with the old implementation of armors and killbonus can be deduced from the Kinds of Variables section by observing that a variable named armors[1] must be a container variable, but it is used as if it were a scalar one. For most tags, that works fine, but it break the syntax of the savefile wml, causing loading a text save game to fail with a WML syntax error.
Since the bug only manifests if a wesnoth setting (binary saves) is manually changed, it is not that important to fix, but since it wasn't difficult either, I went ahead and did it.
Great job! I playtested it some, and liked it.
In the first game I played, the idea that everyone gets gold was met with immediate approval, as if they had wondered why that wasn't that way. We had to abort the game due to technical difficulties (unrelated to SurvivalXtreme).
In the second game, one player was loudly complaining about the change, calling it unfair ("players can just stand back and still get gold") and saying it made the game too easy.
All in all, I think the new version is better. The only negative observation I made was that the game seemed to become too easy after about turn 15, I think that is because players now get more gold than before (assuming more than 2 players are left, which was the case in our game). We won by defeating all enemies in turn 52. I have attached the replay in case you can use it for (validating) balancing.
In the first game I played, the idea that everyone gets gold was met with immediate approval, as if they had wondered why that wasn't that way. We had to abort the game due to technical difficulties (unrelated to SurvivalXtreme).
In the second game, one player was loudly complaining about the change, calling it unfair ("players can just stand back and still get gold") and saying it made the game too easy.
All in all, I think the new version is better. The only negative observation I made was that the game seemed to become too easy after about turn 15, I think that is because players now get more gold than before (assuming more than 2 players are left, which was the case in our game). We won by defeating all enemies in turn 52. I have attached the replay in case you can use it for (validating) balancing.
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- SurvivalXtremeChambers_Spielverlauf.gz
- meriton, sung, and Hakkai win SurvivalXtremeChambers 1.11, starting with 250 gold and level 1 heros, in 52 turns.
- (73.58 KiB) Downloaded 316 times
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Clonkinator
- Posts: 676
- Joined: July 20th, 2006, 4:45 pm
- Location: Germany
Yeah, I already know it's pretty easy now, and already tried to rebalance it. The creeps do now become much stronger somewhat earlier than before, and increasing damage does now cost 20 instead of 15 gold. I currently can't decide whether I should raise the costs for enhancements in the later game or not, so I'd like to hear other people's opinions. I'll have a look at the replay, thanks.
EDIT: Yo, your replay kinda helped. I achieved a grade of difficulty I'm pretty happy with by now, so I just uploaded the updated version to the campaign server (1.11a). It should now stay quite difficult even later on. I tested this update with 5 players (standard settings, lvl1) all controlled by myself in SXMaze, and finished off all leader by turn 74/80 with only two players surviving (Elvish Champion and Elvish Sylph). However, I didn't save the replay... Be careful, the creeps will now get seriously dangerous later on if you aren't careful enough. The bosses are now also some kind of challenge. Enjoy.
EDIT: Yo, your replay kinda helped. I achieved a grade of difficulty I'm pretty happy with by now, so I just uploaded the updated version to the campaign server (1.11a). It should now stay quite difficult even later on. I tested this update with 5 players (standard settings, lvl1) all controlled by myself in SXMaze, and finished off all leader by turn 74/80 with only two players surviving (Elvish Champion and Elvish Sylph). However, I didn't save the replay... Be careful, the creeps will now get seriously dangerous later on if you aren't careful enough. The bosses are now also some kind of challenge. Enjoy.
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Clonkinator
- Posts: 676
- Joined: July 20th, 2006, 4:45 pm
- Location: Germany
The new version is quite challenging, and requires coordination between team mates at times. I like it 
I actually lost two games in a row last night, which hasn't happened since I was a newbie at SurvivalXtreme.
I can't help bragging about my most recent game, though:
We started SurvivalXtremeChambers 1.12, with the recommended starting gold of 300 starting gold, and level 1 heroes. Before turn 6, two heroes met their fate, by turn 20, I was the only player left. I then played the game to the end - and won in turn 87 after killing all enemy leaders.
A particularly funny thing happened in turn 82, when an allied drake blademaster called "Boss" spawned and promptly assaulted the drake leader. (I'd have won the game even without that help, though).
The strategy I employed is very similar to the one I described last time (buy melee impact magical 7-2, melee cold drain 5-1, and invest the bulk of the money into melee damage and melee strike upgrades), the only change was to buy more hp in the beginning, and to increase my mp to 25 during the game. I think this demonstrates that the drain weapon is still overpowered in the late game. You know my proposed remedy
In case it helps with balancing (or contributes to my fame), I have attached the replay.
I actually lost two games in a row last night, which hasn't happened since I was a newbie at SurvivalXtreme.
I can't help bragging about my most recent game, though:
We started SurvivalXtremeChambers 1.12, with the recommended starting gold of 300 starting gold, and level 1 heroes. Before turn 6, two heroes met their fate, by turn 20, I was the only player left. I then played the game to the end - and won in turn 87 after killing all enemy leaders.
A particularly funny thing happened in turn 82, when an allied drake blademaster called "Boss" spawned and promptly assaulted the drake leader. (I'd have won the game even without that help, though).
The strategy I employed is very similar to the one I described last time (buy melee impact magical 7-2, melee cold drain 5-1, and invest the bulk of the money into melee damage and melee strike upgrades), the only change was to buy more hp in the beginning, and to increase my mp to 25 during the game. I think this demonstrates that the drain weapon is still overpowered in the late game. You know my proposed remedy
In case it helps with balancing (or contributes to my fame
), I have attached the replay.- Attachments
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- SurvivalXtremeChambers_replay.gz
- meriton wins SurvivalXtremeChambers in turn 87, after killing 466 units by inflicting 143928 damage, and receiving 8384 damage himself.
He started with 300 gold, a level one unit, and 4 other players (who had perished by turn 20). - (115.43 KiB) Downloaded 300 times
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Clonkinator
- Posts: 676
- Joined: July 20th, 2006, 4:45 pm
- Location: Germany
An allied drake boss? I'll have to check that...
Version 1.13 has been released...
The new difficulty is pretty good, yes. However, for some people it's still too easy, and for some other it's too hard now, so I've finally implemented the possiblity to set the difficulty in the beginning (affects the amount of gold gained by killing enemies). For now it's triggered by the first player's move. I'll have to check if that causes OOS in multiplayer, though. I've also added another new map called SurvivalXtremeAdventure. Just check it out. Other than that, I improved the comments in my macro file a lot and did some other minor improvements. Enjoy.
And thanks for the replay again, I'll have a close look at it.
Version 1.13 has been released...
The new difficulty is pretty good, yes. However, for some people it's still too easy, and for some other it's too hard now, so I've finally implemented the possiblity to set the difficulty in the beginning (affects the amount of gold gained by killing enemies). For now it's triggered by the first player's move. I'll have to check if that causes OOS in multiplayer, though. I've also added another new map called SurvivalXtremeAdventure. Just check it out. Other than that, I improved the comments in my macro file a lot and did some other minor improvements. Enjoy.
And thanks for the replay again, I'll have a close look at it.
I've chnged the *Advanced map making the starting point a stronghold (screen) - designed as a game with 25 starting gold ) Also I've added some water ford though the map so fish/nagas can be used by players.
Also for example *Battle map uses grass - It could be mixed (sand, desert, water ford, other). A screen of map:
) Also I've added some water ford though the map so fish/nagas can be used by players.
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A pretty version of the previous post, using [ map ] instead of [ code ] tags:
Riklaunim wrote:I've chnged the *Advanced map making the starting point a stronghold (screen) - designed as a game with 25 starting gold
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Also for example *Battle map uses grass - It could be mixed (sand, desert, water ford, other). A screen of map:
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--Kernigh http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Kernigh
SurvivalXtremeMaze eventually unplayable
I remember when a single unit with 50-10 attacks and 1000 hp could win a SurvivalXtreme map. Today, that is not so. Three characters with more than 1000 hp and attacks around 95-19 fought the AI to a stalemate in SurvivalXtremeMaze 1.13 at turn 90. Though I had set the game for unlimited turns, I had to stop at turn 90 because the undead AI was taking more than 20 minutes to decide its moves.Clonkinator wrote:The new difficulty is pretty good, yes. However, for some people it's still too easy, and for some other it's too hard now, ...
To reach turn 90, I had already waited through several long and slow AI side turns. Such slow turns would occur whenever I parked one or more of my units near multiple AI recruits. I would have avoided slow turns if I would kill masses of AI recruits before their turn. However, sometimes the AI recruits were out of reach, sometimes I had to park my unit on defensive terrain rather then risk death, and sometimes 95-19 was not enough to kill a recruit in one turn. The AI recruits had hundreds of hp (some even had 10 or 15 more hp then their max); that likely caused slow damage calculations.
I do have the replay, but the replay goes out-of-sync at turn 54 (about when I saved and reloaded the game). However the save does let me resume the game at turn 90.
--Kernigh http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Kernigh
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Clonkinator
- Posts: 676
- Joined: July 20th, 2006, 4:45 pm
- Location: Germany
Re: SurvivalXtremeMaze eventually unplayable
It never happened to me yet that the AI takes this much time to decide it's moves, not even after turn 100. Sounds bad, however. Maybe I'll reduce the recruits' HP again and give them higher resistances instead...Kernigh wrote:I remember when a single unit with 50-10 attacks and 1000 hp could win a SurvivalXtreme map. Today, that is not so. Three characters with more than 1000 hp and attacks around 95-19 fought the AI to a stalemate in SurvivalXtremeMaze 1.13 at turn 90. Though I had set the game for unlimited turns, I had to stop at turn 90 because the undead AI was taking more than 20 minutes to decide its moves.Clonkinator wrote:The new difficulty is pretty good, yes. However, for some people it's still too easy, and for some other it's too hard now, ...
To reach turn 90, I had already waited through several long and slow AI side turns. Such slow turns would occur whenever I parked one or more of my units near multiple AI recruits. I would have avoided slow turns if I would kill masses of AI recruits before their turn. However, sometimes the AI recruits were out of reach, sometimes I had to park my unit on defensive terrain rather then risk death, and sometimes 95-19 was not enough to kill a recruit in one turn. The AI recruits had hundreds of hp (some even had 10 or 15 more hp then their max); that likely caused slow damage calculations.
I do have the replay, but the replay goes out-of-sync at turn 54 (about when I saved and reloaded the game). However the save does let me resume the game at turn 90.
Btw, Version 1.14 has been released. It contains several monir improvements and fixes. Two major things are that
1.) The drain weapons have been removed because they were messing up the game balance
2.) The money transaction screen is no colored and shows the players' names.
Check it out at the campaign server.
EDIT: @Riklaunim: I actually agree that some of my maps could use more different terrain, and I will also revamp my maps as soon as I get around it. Maybe I'll also just your modified ones, let's see.
Hi Clonkinator,
Thanks for your great work so far!
I have a problem with the survivalextreme battle map: If I am the host I will always get an error message while the computer makes his moves. I don´t have that error when playing on other survival maps. I didn´t have any problems at all in previous versions of survivalextreme battle (1.12 or lower).
Thanks for your great work so far!
I have a problem with the survivalextreme battle map: If I am the host I will always get an error message while the computer makes his moves. I don´t have that error when playing on other survival maps. I didn´t have any problems at all in previous versions of survivalextreme battle (1.12 or lower).
a crazy remix of the adventure map
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