A New Land addon - Wesnoth 1.4

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Raliven
Posts: 18
Joined: December 31st, 2005, 4:15 am

The Great Wall - Tile Mismatch

Post by Raliven »

I am assuming that in The Great Wall scenario, the two sides are supposed to mirror each other. If that is the case, then (17,24) and (23,20) do not match and neither do (14,22) and (26,21).
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governor
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Joined: December 8th, 2006, 12:32 am

Post by governor »

Yes, they are different. This will be fixed on next release.
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Bob_The_Mighty
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Joined: July 13th, 2006, 1:15 pm

Post by Bob_The_Mighty »

Hello. I'm not gone quite yet. :D

I just put the latest version of A New Land on the server. There have been lots of changes, including...

- I removed the 'delayed build' feature, so no more OOS!
- I also removed temples and lotus flowers, since they seemed a bit pointless.
- Peasants now automatically plant/harvest/mine when left to rest. Hopefully this will make games a bit quicker.
- Instead of making everyone read a lengthy intro, players get a help menu when their leader makes his first move. This menu can also be accessed when leaders visit universities.
- Units can only improve their weapons once in the Blacksmith. I did this to avoid the 40-67 melee lunacy I experienced in some games. You can now choose from a selection of upgrades, including weapons specials - all of which have a different nugget cost.
- Blacksmiths now cost 10g to construct, whilst castles and keeps cost 6g.
- Mages now add their level to the study progress, i.e. a red mage adds 2 points towards the chosen advance. This doesn't include leaders.
- In order for a leader to share knowledge, they must have reached more advances in that field than their ally.
- If a player exceeds the research target as a result of sharing knowledge or using a level 2+ mage to study, the remainding 'study points' are kept.
- For 2 nuggets Peasants can be turned into 'Builders' by improving their tools in a blacksmith. Builders construct things for 2g less than usual. (Hopefully this will make blacksmiths and iron mining a more interesting feature.)
- Monoliths in the End of Days scenario now cost 50g rather than 70g, and also add 5g to your income.
- The Last Stand has been made somewhat harder. The AI gets more income and can recruit level 2 units a lot earlier.

Enjoy!
Last edited by Bob_The_Mighty on March 28th, 2007, 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My current projects:
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
Rhuvaen
Inactive Developer
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Location: Berlin, Germany

Post by Rhuvaen »

Bob_The_Mighty wrote:- I removed the 'delayed build' feature, so no more OOS!
I assumed you weren't interested in the feature since you removed it before trying to fix OOS or contacting me about it. It would be a simple thing to move from side turn to new turn events, as well as making sure all temporary variables are cleared properly. If you're still interested in it, I could look into that.

I just don't think the delayed build = OOS is quite appropriate... :wink:
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Bob_The_Mighty
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Joined: July 13th, 2006, 1:15 pm

Post by Bob_The_Mighty »

You're right Rhuvaen, I must admit I wasn't keen on it. And I didn't really understand what caused the OOS errors, I only went on what governor said. But I do appreciate the work you did on it. So thank you! Feel free to tamper and improve, but I believe governor is going to take it over now anyway...
My current projects:
MP pirate campaign: The Altaz Mariners
RPG sequel: Return to Trent
MP stealth campaign: Den of Thieves
Kalis
Posts: 199
Joined: February 3rd, 2007, 1:51 am
Location: Toronto

Post by Kalis »

Very awesome map Bob the Mighty, Governor, and Rhuvaen! :D
Tried out "The Last Stand" with a friend yesterday and had a blast!

A few possible bugs:
- mage research requires you to move a mage in and out of the university (although that might be part of the game?).
- for some reason, peasants occasionally couldn't build villages in spots. If you move another peasant on the same spot though it'll build it.

Other than that, the map is pure fun! It's like a completely new game rather than wesnoth :)
Last edited by Kalis on March 29th, 2007, 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
eyu100
Posts: 150
Joined: August 1st, 2006, 6:03 pm

Post by eyu100 »

Why did you remove the temples? They heal units and are vital for building very strong units.
Identity
Posts: 4
Joined: March 28th, 2007, 7:24 pm

Post by Identity »

This map is a blast to play. Thanks for all the hard work put into it thus far.

I just had one comment. In playing The Last Stand, the captured level 2 creatures seem to be quite important in early offense and defense. However, of the two factions facing undead, the purple one gets a wose, which is quite effective at killing the skeleton castle guard, while red gets a gryphon, which is all but useless versus the skeleton. I would propose you switch the spawn locations of the gryphon and the drake, allowing the red team to get the drake, which would be more effective versus the skeleton defender. The gryphon and the ogre would then be in factions versus the orcs, which would leave all 4 sides more balanced against the castle defenders.

Edit:
The wose is capable of clearing and holding one of the paths to the enemy nearly on its own, in large part due to its regeneration. None of the other creatures are even close to being able to do this. Another reason to switch gryphon from vs undead to vs orc is that it has negative impact resistance, which hurts a lot vs walking dead, but not vs the orcs.

Bottom line is that the level 2 captured creatures are not balanced at all versus their respective opponent factions, and it might be something worth correcting.
Identity
Posts: 4
Joined: March 28th, 2007, 7:24 pm

Post by Identity »

Just played through The Last Stand completely. A few bugs were noticed:

--If an ally shares technology, and it's the last piece of technology, it does not complete the technology and is wasted (i.e. player 1 has 2/3 of farming researched, during player 2's turn, he shares 1 technology with player 1, increasing the farming to 3/3, but it is not learnt, player one must again research it during his turn, effectively learning it 4/3)

--The iron mining upgrades don't work. Period. Even moving the peasant off the mine and back one doesn't reset it to the amount of ore upgraded to.

--Not sure if it's a bug, but only human units can use the blacksmith. This makes the elvish units in general underpowered to their human equivalents. The dwarven berserkers and thunderers would likely be overpowered with upgrades, however.

--Oh, also, it might be nice to mention in the instructions that enemy units destroy castle and village tiles when they move to them.


Some balance issues:

--Gold mine upgrade is way overpriced compared to farming upgrade. The first farming upgrade increases 3 to 4 for 3 turns research, for a 33% gain. The gold mine upgrade is 4 turns for a 4 to 5 increase in gold, a 25% increase (actually a 6 to 7 increase including village gold, only 17% increase). Then factor in that you can easily have 8 or so farms going, but at the most, only realistically 3 gold mines. Subsequent upgrades are still unbalanced.

--Upgrading a peasant to a builder is a complete waste. First of all, if that peasant builds mines, it cannot remain on that mine, or it's wasted as a builder, thus it must move off the mine tile, to be replaced by another peasant the next turn, effectively wasting 4+ gold or 1+ iron, which has already wasted the 2 gold less spent making the mine. Theoretically, one could use the builder to make a ton of villages, but seeing as 2 ore roughly corresponds to roughly 8 gold, that'd require that one builder to make 5 villages for it to be worthwhile, which is a bit excessive requiring one peasant to make them all. I'd propose an upgrade which costs 2 iron which makes construction of all those elements cost one less gold for all of your peasants.

--The players facing undead opponents have a much harder fight once the level 1's and 2's start showing up. Not only do the skeletons have massive resistances, but they also have 2 movement through shallow water, making them much less impeded by constructed moats. The undead also get spellcaster recruits, which are far nastier than the equivalent orc trolls.

--The backstab, charge, firstrike, and marksman abilities all seem far overpriced. Since you are defending, the backstab and marksman abilities are difficult to get good use out of. You should already be positioned to give the opponent a bad chance to block, and as they attack you as a front usually, you have little chance to get around and backstab them. The firstrike ability is just not worth 8 iron. The charge ability could be worth 10 iron, but for 5 or 8, i'd imagine most of the time the extra attack would be preferable. Slow could probably be the 10 iron ranged ability, and marksman could maybe be 6 iron or so.
Clonkinator
Posts: 676
Joined: July 20th, 2006, 4:45 pm
Location: Germany

Post by Clonkinator »

First of all: Great work, I really enjoy playing this mod. It was probably tons of work to do. But I also have some things to say: (I am using 0.8.5)

- The only units which can use the blacksmith are your leader and your peasants. Any other unit moving on them won't trigger the event. This really needs to be changed.

- If one player researches one thing, especially farming, he won't notice any changes or upgrades. However, often another player suddenly gets 6 gold per crop or so although he never researched farming...

- Couldn't you offer the player to trigger a winning-event if he wants to once he fulfilled the goal (survive 25 turns)? It is a kinda low reward to get a message popping up that says "Congratulations, you have won, but you may continue if you wish..."... It is annoying to lose after having won...:? You could easily do that by triggering an option-event for the host / player 1.

- It would be great if you did even more scenarios for ANL, I can't get enough of it :D. However, I'd also welcome a campaign from ANL, no matter if it would be a SP-campaign or a MP-campaign. You don't always need the enemy to be able to build things as well - the AI-enemys in ANL-TLS also isn't, and the scenario is fun (though it is a hard one).

- The "builder"-thing for peasants is indeed a bit senseless. It just isn't worth it. Rather give them the ability to make themselves some weak kind of weapon, to turn them into "battle-peasants" or somethin' like that. You don't have any real military unit in the beginning, and having a peasant that is able to at least defend a position from a castle with is self-made 4-3 short sword or somethin' like that would be pretty handy at the beginning, even if that peasant lost his ability to be a peasant :roll:...

- Forget about this point.

Well, think about it, and keep making such good stuff!

Btw, @Kalis: Peasants may only build something if they have at least one MP left. If they don't have the action-window won't even pop up.
Last edited by Clonkinator on April 14th, 2007, 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Truper
Posts: 139
Joined: May 16th, 2006, 6:06 pm

Post by Truper »

Clonkinator wrote: - Make gold mines give a *bit* more initial gold, somethin' like 5 or 6. They're just worthless compared to the free cash crops right now, since it takes a gold mine 25 turns to be more effective than a crop.
This is just wrong. A gold mine has an initial investment, but it pays off in more than one way. It acts as a village, and therefore produces 2 gold per turn, even without a peasant working it. If a peasant does work it, it produces an additional 4 gold *every turn*, not every other turn like cash crops. It therefore pays off the investment on the 5th turn, and will have produced more gold than a peasant who is farming on the 7th turn.
Clonkinator
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Location: Germany

Post by Clonkinator »

Truper wrote:
Clonkinator wrote: - Make gold mines give a *bit* more initial gold, somethin' like 5 or 6. They're just worthless compared to the free cash crops right now, since it takes a gold mine 25 turns to be more effective than a crop.
This is just wrong. A gold mine has an initial investment, but it pays off in more than one way. It acts as a village, and therefore produces 2 gold per turn, even without a peasant working it. If a peasant does work it, it produces an additional 4 gold *every turn*, not every other turn like cash crops. It therefore pays off the investment on the 5th turn, and will have produced more gold than a peasant who is farming on the 7th turn.
Well, okay, forget about that point. However, I noticed that even leaders can't use the blacksmith, at least at 'End Of Days'. I don't think that peasants are the only units supposed to use the blacksmith, are they?
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governor
Posts: 267
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Post by governor »

A New Land 0.8.5.r02 is now uploaded to the campaign server. This was major bug fix that resolves the issues with players receiving incorrect amounts from auto mining/farming. Iron mining should also work w/o problems. Although, I cannot reproduce the problems with the blacksmith that others were experiencing. Units are only supposed to be able to use the blacksmith once.

Project Notes:
Currently I am redesigning the underlying ANL WML to make it easier to maintain and upgrade, since it is taking longer than I expected (due to life), I decided to release major bug fixes to 0.8.5 and increment a release count.

Please continue to post feedback and bug issues so that they can be resolved.

Thanks,
gov


EDIT: It seems that the auto-farming does not remove the icon from the grassland when harvesting. Once the add-on server is back up I will fix this.
Kalis
Posts: 199
Joined: February 3rd, 2007, 1:51 am
Location: Toronto

Post by Kalis »

clonkinator:
I realize.
What I meant was I move the peasant on a spot, click build village, and it won't build even though I have the gold.
THen I move him off, move another peasant on that spot (the same turn) and that one can build it.
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governor
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Post by governor »

Kalis wrote:clonkinator:
I realize.
What I meant was I move the peasant on a spot, click build village, and it won't build even though I have the gold.
THen I move him off, move another peasant on that spot (the same turn) and that one can build it.
This is a strange error that happens occasionally and fairly randomly and usually only occurs once per player side at different times int the game. For now, try to ensure that your peasant has movement points left over when his build fails so that he can complete another task on an adjacent tile.
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