A New Land addon - Wesnoth 1.4

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Bob_The_Mighty
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A New Land addon - Wesnoth 1.4

Post by Bob_The_Mighty » February 2nd, 2007, 7:05 am

I came across a nice little macro to filter by terrain type and made a multiplayer empire-building scenario.

Initially, player's can only recruit peasants and mages. However, peasants can be put to work chopping down trees, making fords, planting crops, and building villages, mines, farms and castles. They can also upgrade villages into blacksmiths, universities and temples. Meanwhile mages can study at the universities to unlock new units and increase the gold produced by farming and mining. In addition, leaders have special diplomatic options such as sharing knowledge and donating gold to allies, and negotiating with other races for military support.

It all sounds hideously complicated, but I've been testing it out pretty thoroughly this last week and it most players seem to grasp it quickly enough. It is tempting to add new features like tax-rates, racial-animosity factors and sanitation levels - but I have so far restrained myself.

A New Land is the name I have given to this mod, but i intend to make a couple of scenarios using this system. I'll include them all in the same download. So far there is...

A New Land - The Great Wall
A 2v2 scenario in which players must build an empire whilst fending off AI attacks - until turn 20 when the wall comes down. At that point the players are let loose at each other.

A New Land - The Last Stand
A 4p survival map, in which players must desperately defend themselves against a continual stream of AI attackers. It's pretty damn tough as it stands, though this is only a rough version.

A New Land - End of Days
A 4p FFA, with added demolition-ogres and thieves. It's the end of the world as we know it and players must erect four monuments to the gods in order to escape their wrath. There is a nice surprise when judgement day finally arrives.
Last edited by Bob_The_Mighty on December 3rd, 2007, 12:05 am, edited 5 times in total.
My current projects:
2p Campaign: The Altaz Mariners
3p Survival: Save The Village

Imp
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Re: A New Land

Post by Imp » February 2nd, 2007, 2:32 pm

Bob_The_Mighty wrote:However, peasants can be put to work chopping down trees, making fords
You like their cars, eh?

*ahem*

These mods rock! They are so fun to play, and initially take a long time to finish, but once you know what you're going you'll breeze along. The Last Stand is awesome, working together to survive in a harsh land!

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Post by Yanshee » February 2nd, 2007, 5:19 pm

This is awesome !!! :shock: This is exactly the kind of things I would like to see available for my WW1 era, as I want to have engineer troops to be able to dig trench and drop barbed wire as well as removing them !!!
As I'm a WML noob ( :oops: ), I've got a lot of questions:
- Could you explain me a bit how it works ?
- As I've looked at your era's file, do the code have absolutely to be included in the map.cfg ?
- Does it only work in MP, or is it also possible to make a SP campaign using this ?(I guess there will problems with the AI using this feature...)
- Do you want to help me ? (oh ok, this is a dumb question, but I couldn't help asking... :P )

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Post by Glowing Fish » February 2nd, 2007, 5:55 pm

I saw this online...I think I asked you on your first game where I could download it.

The thing is, I am thinking it might take a while to do this online. Have you ever considered making a campaign out of this?

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Post by Rhuvaen » February 2nd, 2007, 5:58 pm

It would be great if this could be played with the peasant eras - the ones where you have wose saplings or dwarven miners instead of peasants. You could just have any level 0 unit function like a peasant (and maybe adjust for race - dwarves mine more gold but get less from cash crops etc). That would make the game a bit more variable.

If you simply want all factions to be peasants/mages then there's no reason to have a special era for this - simply set the recruits in a prestart event. That however would prevent the existing peasant eras from being used.

I think the instant terraforming is too powerful (just make a new castle or village when you attack). Instead you could store variables and instantiate the new terrains on that players next turn... I think it would alleviate some options that seem too good to be true.

Perhaps also the number of enemies appearing could be adjusted a little depending on the number of human players? As it is, this can only be played by 4 or perhaps 3 people successfully.

I think this is a very innovative and fun survival-type scenario, and I hope to find the time to play one through this year. :lol:

EDIT: I also think that mining isn't balanced - you can have cash crops on nearly every hex, but mines only on hills - of which there are few that are anywhere near.

EDIT2: I think I saw that when you had a mage-type leader, you get research options instead of diplomatic options when entering an elven village. This will prevent a player from utilising those options... :(

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Bob_The_Mighty
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Post by Bob_The_Mighty » February 2nd, 2007, 7:49 pm

Rhuvaen

- Peasants can only build/farm/mine when they have more than 1 movement left. This means they can't do it if they go next to an enemy that is higher than level 0. Thus the possibilty of creating an instant defence isn't too much of a problem in my opinion.

- I guess I should add something to reduce the enemies if there are less human players but I don't know how.

- Only level 1 mages can research in the universities. If a mage, or a peasant for that matter, advances they leave their books and pitchforks behind to seek glory in battle. :D Having said that, I am thinking about making higher level mages be able to research twice as quickly - but it still won't interfere with leaders being red or white mages.

- Originally, peasants could make hills (?) and then build mines on them, but this meant farms were undervalued. I changed it so that mines are more scarce, after all they generate 12 gold every two turns as opposed to farms which give you 3 in that time.

Yanshee

- Yes Yanshee, I could help you. It all works with terrain tiles, so if it's possible to include custom terrains in era then it'd be much easier.

- I guess the building events could be made into an all-inclusive macro, but i don't really know how to do that. I wish I did because that would be very handy for me - I could use the same util.cfg for all the new land scenarios.

- It would work in SP campaigns, though not for the AI. Maybe you could specify that their engineers built things at certain times, but if you left it up to chance the result would be very stupid indeed.
My current projects:
2p Campaign: The Altaz Mariners
3p Survival: Save The Village

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Post by Rhuvaen » February 2nd, 2007, 10:44 pm

Bob_The_Mighty wrote:- Peasants can only build/farm/mine when they have more than 1 movement left. This means they can't do it if they go next to an enemy that is higher than level 0. Thus the possibilty of creating an instant defence isn't too much of a problem in my opinion.
For a long time, the attackers are made up entirely of level 0's. That means I'm building defenses before every attack with my peasants, if I can. By the time the level 1's arrive, the place is already littered (with castles at least, because they're cheap). In fact, not building a castle when attacking from grassland would be a bad choice, since I can boost my defense from 40% to 60% (for as long as I hold that hex) by spending four gold.
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:I guess I should add something to reduce the enemies if there are less human players but I don't know how.
Hm, reducing the enemy's income depending on the number of players?
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:I guess the building events could be made into an all-inclusive macro, but i don't really know how to do that. I wish I did because that would be very handy for me - I could use the same util.cfg for all the new land scenarios.
You just define a macro containing those events, save it into a util.cfg and then write in your scenario file:

Code: Select all

{~campaigns/A_New_Land/util.cfg}
You also need to call the macros from the scenario file, of course (just including the definitions doesn't do much :)).

About the mages and mines - well I guess I didn't test and discover enough yet! :wink:

If I try and come up with something that delays the "terraforming" until the player's next turn, would you include it?

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Eleazar
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Post by Eleazar » February 2nd, 2007, 11:45 pm

Rhuvaen wrote:
Bob_The_Mighty wrote:- Peasants can only build/farm/mine when they have more than 1 movement left. This means they can't do it if they go next to an enemy that is higher than level 0. Thus the possibilty of creating an instant defence isn't too much of a problem in my opinion.
.... In fact, not building a castle when attacking from grassland would be a bad choice, since I can boost my defense from 40% to 60% (for as long as I hold that hex) by spending four gold.
Simply increasing the cost of castle-building would delegitimize the build-castle-where-ever-i-fight strategy. They do seem extremely cheap anyhow.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
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governor
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Post by governor » February 3rd, 2007, 1:43 am

Nice work, I think for the most part it is fairly well balanced. Anyhow, there is a small bug when a player sends one research point to an ally if it maxes the research level. If then the ally chooses (farming 3/3) to research he only gets to upgrade farming, but if he chooses mining he gets to upgrade mining and also gain a farming level. So what I suggest is adding another trigger to the knowledge leveling that triggers on the move_to event filter university. So that the mage can level a category and then research another category.

Also, I wouldn't mind seeing buildings/terrain mods occur at the beginning of the next turn.
Last edited by governor on February 3rd, 2007, 2:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

Imp
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Post by Imp » February 3rd, 2007, 1:45 am

The castle-building-when-attacking is fine the way it is. You see, by using a peasant to fight, you're not getting that peasant's income that turn, not to mention they're fragile. While the enemy is attacking with lvl 0's, your economy is the most important thing, so using a peasant to fight is a commitment of valuable resources - plus the cost of a castle is two turns of one peasant's income!

The way it works out is, for the first 8-12 turns, you've got 100 gold worth of military units to fight with. If you lose a mage, you've got 80 gold worth of military units to fight with. After that, the enemy starts swarming you with lvl 1's like skeletons, archers and adepts, so you have to manage your resources very well.

Mines are very balanced the way they are now. They used to be super-powerful, but now there are enough to make it quite easy to survive the first few waves...

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Post by Inigo Montoya » February 3rd, 2007, 4:40 am

This is very similar in concept to my proposed 'buildings' era - it would appear that you've saved me a hell of a lot of work, so thanks!
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Post by Eleazar » February 3rd, 2007, 6:27 am

I played it MP tonight, as player 4.

All the undead and orc attacks on the island occurred on my half. My ally didn't chose to leave the island until a few turns before the wall came down, and spent the first part of the game without fighting (besides sending a few units over to my side).

I'd think there would be a way to spread out the attacks more evenly between both sides, by altering the terrain, or perhaps this was a fluke?
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity

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Post by Rhuvaen » February 3rd, 2007, 12:01 pm

Imp wrote:The castle-building-when-attacking is fine the way it is. You see, by using a peasant to fight, you're not getting that peasant's income that turn, not to mention they're fragile. While the enemy is attacking with lvl 0's, your economy is the most important thing, so using a peasant to fight is a commitment of valuable resources - plus the cost of a castle is two turns of one peasant's income!
I agree that I've been missing the importance of the economic aspect somewhat the first game (but I was only playing 2 sides with 100 gold on the survival map, so it's understandable). I think the price for the castle is alright. But in the beginning, you must fight off the level 0's with some peasants. Your leader may help, of course, but the mages just get mashed in melee and are very important for conducting research... levelling a peasant also gives you a great boost!

So what I'm saying is: I agree that fighting isn't the best purpose you can put your peasants to, but at the same time it's inevitable that you will be attacking some enemies with some of your peasants. In those cases, it's better to build a castle and give the peasant a greater chance to survive the fight (and any counter-attacks) than not build a castle. Because if you don't do it, you might waste the 8 gold that the peasant was worth (and if it dies, another unit can step up into the castle).

I think having buildings appear one turn later would be both more realistic and require an effort of advance-planning by the player, instead of opportunistic action. :wink:

Well I guess I will work on the WML for that to happen, and then let Bob choose whether he wants to include it or not...

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Post by Imp » February 3rd, 2007, 3:00 pm

You should probably save your energy because the game is tough enough with the ability to build a castle when attacking lvl 0's. Taking out that ability makes it so much harder to get the fortifications up in time for when the real soldiers come...it's one extra peasant turn that needs to be wasted to set up forts in the crucial early part of the game.

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Post by Eleazar » February 3rd, 2007, 5:37 pm

I tweaked the map to flow the baddies more evenly to all human players.
I tested a couple iterations, and it seems to work, but i haven't played a full game this way. Use it if it's helpful.
[map]
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fwfffffgsscccscfcffWffccckcccccsccfffff
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[/map]
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity

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