[4MetalMilitia] reason for ip-showing and in-game alliances

[dreamer_]

well, before I start I would like to tell a story:

once upon a time, three forces met on TripleBlitz batleground.
there were undead (lead by me, dreamer_), drakes (with honest player, Epzylon, as commander), and noobish MetalMilitia led elves.
Battle started as usual, at sunrise, and fighters moved out of their castles.
Unfortunately Undead soon discovered that drakes and elves were fighting together! it shouldn't be like this! in game-lobby it was clearly 1v1v1 game. Alas, starting position of every force was the same (1000gold) situation of undead was bad, very bad...
somehow they managed to hold back elves attacking from north, however drakes were killing south units one by one... until night
during first night with a little bit of luck Dreamer_ managed to kill dragon-pack which was trying to destroy undead leader. Now ghosts started to advance, and the hope for destroying alliance grew.
Next day was hard for undead but ther force grew stronger, their units advanced and everything looked fine - Dreamer only waited for night to start... and then.

MetalMilitia, who hosted game made 'control 2 MetalMilitia', now he was in command of Dreamer_'s units. huh?! what?
he was trying to send undead liches for suicide mission but.. they suceeded in destroying 2 xperienced dragons without loss.
every1 pissed off, Epzylon left game, chance for glorious undead (fairplay) victory destroyed .

-- the end
here's replay: http://www.dreamer.resnet.pl/studia/tmp ... replay_2v1

becouse MetalMilitia imho was extremely rude during whole game I made a little bit of effort and ripped chatlog from replay:
here's full chatlog http://www.dreamer.resnet.pl/studia/tmp ... ay_2v1.txt

here's Python application to ripping chatlogs (it's not perfect, but u can use it if u like)
http://www.dreamer.resnet.pl/studia/tmp ... hat_log.py


---
and now:
that unfortunate game made me wonder: what should be implemented in mp wesnoth to prevent such unfairness?

1) players' IP address should be public for players on map. really. there should be command to show player's ip, lag, time when he moved his last unit
2) making alliances during game (not only in lobby but also during game) should be possible. why not? maybe some trade of gold for allies?
3) voting system? could be useful - and it would work better than commands that can be used only by admin - I don't remember how many times I was trying to explain some1 how to open console. I know it's simple. I love vi. But ppl just don't know how to open and use console - its should be added as option 'view console' to menu. or typing '\' before text should act as redirecting text to console... or maybe... I guess it's not that hard to implement...
4) here's some revolutionary idea: how about ranking system that will contain information how_fun_is_it_to_play_with_u. after finished game
small window would appear with info: mark u're teammates/adversaries: good/bad/quitter ?
ppl would see who can they kick while setting up map - nobody likes quitters...

and last. is there any chance that some1 can get banned from official server?

[Zhukov]

*reads chatlog*

Whoa...there is some great quote material in there.

*abandons all pretence of maturity and responsibility*

That Metalmilitia guy was a bloody wanker. I can sympathise with your position. However, it appears you gave a damn good account of youself, holding your own against two teams and arguing the guy to a standstill.
However, I gotta say that I don't think it's worth changing the game because of people like him. They are a fact of life, and especially prevalent in online computer games. To quote JW, "Idiots are everywhere."

You can be comforted by the idea that anybody who reads that chatlog probably won't be playing Metalmilitia anytime soon.

[Viliam]

well, before I start I would like to tell a story:
...
becouse MetalMilitia imho was extremely rude during whole game I made a little bit of effort and ripped chatlog from replay:
here's full chatlog http://www.dreamer.resnet.pl/studia/tmp ... ay_2v1.txt

Now, this was a great story. I very enjoyed reading it, it was so... scary. Uh, I have already met guys like this on internet (not in Wesnoth) and I was thinking like: "WTF??! If they behave like this in real life, it is a miracle that they survive more than one day..."

4) here's some revolutionary idea: how about ranking system that will contain information how_fun_is_it_to_play_with_u. after finished game
small window would appear with info: mark u're teammates/adversaries: good/bad/quitter ?
ppl would see who can they kick while setting up map - nobody likes quitters...

This has a great potential for abuse. Just imagine people entering false information for various reasons. For example in your situation you would rate MetalMilitia as bad player... and probably he would rate you as bad player too. Then he would have a game against himself or against his brother, and they would rate each other good. So the results would not be reliable.

It is also not possible to identify all players. Someone using dial-up would always have different IP address; two people behind the same proxy server would appear as one, etc. Players would have to register accounts with username/password. But then, if someone receives too bad ratings, it is very simple to create another account.

[scott]

The best thing you can do now is make sure other players know to beware this snot. If he acts like this in other games, no matter what name he's using, other players will figure it out. He'll probably get bored of Wesnoth and go back to WOW. That's really outrageous.

The best thing for you to do then would have probably been to simply let him know such behavior (and horrendous English) isn't acceptable.

The funny thing is that he didn't understand that the update lag is built into the game and kept accusing you of playing slowly. Actually, it's also funny how much the wind fell out of his sails after you told him of your intentions to seek a sanction.

If two players agree to collaborate in a FFA, there's nothing the game can do to prevent an alliance.

MetalMilitia: giving a bad name to the maturity of 14-year-olds everywhere.

[Sapient]

And the moral of the story is, N3T.

(You weren't exactly a saint in the chatlog, either...)

[Xan]

And the moral of the story is, N3T.

No, it is not. Even if I don't like FFAs personally, obviously a lot of other people have fun with them.

[Sapient]

Oh, yeah, I forgot to add a silly emoticon.

[dreamer_]

(You weren't exactly a saint in the chatlog, either...)

nah, I wasn't but ':clear'ing this chit-chat from screen every 2 minutes made me pretty nervous

I just repaired Python script becouse it extracted
<Epzylon> shut up
<Dreamer> you will die!
instead of :
<Epzylon> shut up Dreamer! you will die!
now it's wokring pretty good (not excellent however )

Whoa...there is some great quote material in there.

oh, there are... personally I prefer these:

<MetalMilitia> Good, Good....that fire drake will eventually pwn the wrai- OH NO
// my lonely wraith killed weakened fire drake while he was typing


<MetalMilitia> Drakes, I need you to push foward! they are attempting to counter my box~
// I was attempting not to move out of my good defensive positions to make him attack from swamp again and again. and he did ^^
<Dreamer> Militia, do u have ANY lvl2 unit?
<MetalMilitia> My leader...

and after this text I felt like talking to Cartman from SouthPark
<MetalMilitia> Are you a puppet on strings
<MetalMilitia> Do I controll your every act?

---
protocol: I suceeded winning this map vs 2 comps, however mostly becouse they started fighting each other and I had most of lvl2/3 units on map.

---

It is also not possible to identify all players. Someone using dial-up would always have different IP address; two people behind the same proxy server would appear as one, etc. Players would have to register accounts with username/password. But then, if someone receives too bad ratings, it is very simple to create another account.

yup, u're right however some fps games have good ideas out there: EnemyTerritory with punkbuster can identify player (probably through somethin like game installation guid), America's Army has cool ranking system which almost removed unfair-game, however players have to be registered
hmm, I know it's hard to accomplish, but maybe... maybe let's count average number of 'gg' and 'bg' messages in game? when number of 'gg' messages will be quite similar to average players will get +, when it will be too high (to prevent gg-spamming) or bg will appear, player will get -. for quitting without explanation player get - (from admin).

and what about other ideas? showing ip address? changes to console?

[Jgrr]

This is the exact reason why I never play MP with people I don't know IRL.

I'd disallow cheating (like taking control of opponent's units) in MP games, except for testing purposes, which could be identified with a nice little flag during the game start.

[FleshPeeler]

I always wondered if there were people out there who abused the Command line like this . . . now I know. At least reporting the abuse on the forums shows some affirmative results.

I do think player 1 should have less command over the game. Here's a thought . . . when player 1 issues a "control # <name>" command, if there is a human player in that slot, the current owner gets a dialogue box that says "Host has requested change in control for your slot! Accept (Y/N)?" The game then waits 20 seconds with a timer displayed for the player to make a response, and if the counter hits zero, (Y) is automatically selected. It's not a big change in the game, and I think it adds positive functionality without making things too complicated.

Edit: Had to contribute my favorite quote . . .

<MetalMilitia> I will kill you without retaliation!
<MetalMilitia> Ahhh! posioned! get him on a town for healing!

[scott]

hmm, I know it's hard to accomplish, but maybe... maybe let's count average number of 'gg' and 'bg' messages in game? when number of 'gg' messages will be quite similar to average players will get +, when it will be too high (to prevent gg-spamming) or bg will appear, player will get -. for quitting without explanation player get - (from admin).

and what about other ideas? showing ip address? changes to console?

You are not going to be able to do what you want to do by changing the game code. What you want to do is regulate a certain type of human behavior, and the best way to do it is through community pressure to set a minimum standard of conduct. The kind of control you would have to exert to accomplish this though the game client is substantial.
I would also have to guess this kid was an extreme case (but I usually only play with people I know, so I guess I really don't know how often people like him show up)... if that's true, making major changes to the game to clamp down on a small slice of players doesn't seem like a good tradeoff to me.

[Rhuvaen]

One piece of consolation: in earlier versions, you didn't even get notified when a side changed control . I once had a former ally presumably taken over by the AI, and just started to wonder why the AI would occupy my keep with a scout over 5+ turns, when I needed to recruit so badly. Then the host revealed himself through a chat message while he was taking my former ally's turn.

I find that when people are more interested in meddling about than in actually playing, you tend to notice pretty soon after a number of such encounters, especially if you watch people play or chat with them beforehand. I almost never go into games without prior talk.

[Sapient]

I do think player 1 should have less command over the game. Here's a thought . . . when player 1 issues a "control # <name>" command, if there is a human player in that slot, the current owner gets a dialogue box that says "Host has requested change in control for your slot! Accept (Y/N)?" The game then waits 20 seconds with a timer displayed for the player to make a response, and if the counter hits zero, (Y) is automatically selected. It's not a big change in the game, and I think it adds positive functionality without making things too complicated.

Well... then what would stop the host from just kicking you instead? Or banning you? The host is a trusted user, and they have these powers for a good reason. The occaisional abuse of the host position is an unfortunate side-effect. At least you know not to join their game next time.

[Yogibear]

I agree with the statement, that the code is not the best way to handle this kind of problem.

I am on the mp server from time to time and i experienced a similar situation only once. Interestingly enough it was a 3p ffa . One guy became rude to the third player (interestingly enough his english was quite bad, too) who mostly ignored him.
I told him once to stop, i told him a second time to stop but he didn't. Then i told him that this is not what i am playing wesnoth for and that i don't want to tolerate such behaviour any longer and left the game.

It's sad but luckily it does not seem to happen all too often. If you want to do something more rigorous, you can go to #wesnoth-dev or #wesnoth-mp on IRC and ask one of the mp devs to ban someone. Usually Soliton, Dragonking or Noy are available or even on the server themselves. They can take care of this.

Edit:
Well, there is one more thing you can do: Host yourself .

[Elvish_Pillager]

In short: If you're playing a game with people you don't know, always host it yourself.