yet another contribution

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lorill
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Joined: November 30th, 2005, 8:30 pm

yet another contribution

Post by lorill » November 30th, 2005, 8:43 pm

Hello,

I wrote a little piece for wesnoth. It's far from being as good as what Aleski and ThimotyP are doing, but i think it could fit in the game, especially in a forest-ambush type of scenario.

http://www.lesnainsmalins.com/media/vin ... ugubre.ogg

Do you think it could be included ? What should i improve ?

Thanks for your comments,
Lorill.


PS: it's the first time i ever write something for more than two melodic instruments

TimothyP
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Post by TimothyP » November 30th, 2005, 9:23 pm

First of all, you have better sounds than most of the posts, so nice job there.

My first complaint here is that it is pretty sparse. We're trying to compose for full orchestra here.

You start off with strings in octaves. The motive here isn't too bad. Then you bring in some pizz violins. You pretty much stay on two notes at a time. That is one area you should work on. If you don't understand harmony, you really need to study it. Aleksi and I are working from a background of lots of theory training which is almost essential in composing good music. If you don't understand what's possible and how it works, you are very limited.

Your attempt is very good though. You threw in an oboe, which was a good choice. Your harmonic progressions sound like you're not exactly sure what you want out of them, or else you just didn't write enough notes in the parallel lines so that your intentions are hard to make out.

Very little 2-part music can hold up for long. You really need to flesh out your voicings. Mess with different instrument timbres as well as dynamic fluctuations. Also, you should try to modulate and not be as repetitive. You have room to grow. The more you write, the more you'll discover about your strengths and weaknesses. I know I do all the time.

This is one of the best submissions we've had. I don't think it works for Wesnoth, but you are a cut above some of the others. You at least have a sense of where your melody is going. Press on. Study music. Listen to music. If you want to be a composer, you really need to study theory and composition at a college level. Thanks for posting!

--TimothyP

lorill
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Joined: November 30th, 2005, 8:30 pm

Post by lorill » December 3rd, 2005, 6:18 pm

Hello,

Wow, you've got a pretty good ear, everything you said was right, and you didn't see the score :shock:

I was aware of the lack of diversity in melody / instruments. I tried to add a few things (flute, etc..), but it didn't catch, so i removed it. I originaly found the bass line by messing around with my cello, and wrote a flute part on it to play with a friend. There was a second part that i replaced with the trumpets, because it wasn't good.

I do have some knowlegde in harmony, but it's very limited. I read a book, some things on the net, etc... I can't have a professor, so i'll have to go with books. I understand the principles, know what a cadence is, etc..., but i need more experience : i don't know how to use what i read in my music.

I was concerned with sound, because i can't improve here. If this is ok, nothing forbid me to try others things. I won't work any longer on this one, but i have several other ideas to experiement (it will take time, though).

Just a little question : when you talk about composing for orchestra, what instruments should I use ? I tried to use an orchestra here, and i have : full string section, timpani, some brass, and some woodwinds (oboe, basson and flute). What's missing ?

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Aleksi
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Post by Aleksi » December 3rd, 2005, 11:07 pm

TimothyP wrote:Aleksi and I are working from a background of lots of theory training which is almost essential in composing good music.
Hum.... IS essential! ;)
lorill wrote:Just a little question : when you talk about composing for orchestra, what instruments should I use ? I tried to use an orchestra here, and i have : full string section, timpani, some brass, and some woodwinds (oboe, basson and flute). What's missing ?
The instruments you just named are the basic formation for an classical orchestra. As you go by centuries, more instruments where added. At the end, what instrument you use is not what is essential. It is what your harmony gives you and the quality of your themes. Most of the greatest composers composed symphonies for piano before expanding it to an orchestra. The orchestra is simply a string quartet which is expanded within other instruments.

Piano writing=4 voices
Choral writing=4 voices
String writing=4 voices

More voices get added in the 19th century. Well, papa BACH did a couple of fugues with 5 voices... but thats BACH! ;)

The moral is that i suggest you compose something simple for piano and then you add other instrument depending what color you want to give your music.

Aleksi.

TimothyP
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Post by TimothyP » December 5th, 2005, 4:16 pm

Lorill, you may be using all of the insruments you mentioned, but you need to ask yourself, "Does this sound like an orchestra?"

Is an orchestra very interesting if all you hear is a few of the strings and some other stuff thrown in?

Would you be confident to hand your piece to a full orchestra and have them perform it live?

Listen to Aleksi's Main Theme or my Campaign Music 01 (soon to be renamed to Gameplay Music 01). You see here a very broad use of harmony and instrument color. Not only that, but you will hear a lot of change. Modulations and timbre shifts, as well as dynamic fluctuations. These are essential for the atmosphere we are creating for Wesnoth. Simply using orchestra instruments does not make it sound like good orchestra music.

Thanks for your interest and your desire to grow, lorill.

--Timothy

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