The Wesnoth Minstrels

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Re: The Wesnoth Minstrels

Postby Samonella » March 3rd, 2017, 4:41 am

Here's a much better version of the drums, finished enough that critique is welcome. I tried putting it with Inky's latest recordings, but that didn't go very well so I didn't bother saving/posting it. They sound great, btw!
main-drums.zip
(783.44 KiB) Downloaded 26 times

Also, I had a warm-up session with my trumpet so I'll hopefully get a decent recording within a day or two!
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Re: The Wesnoth Minstrels

Postby Inky » March 3rd, 2017, 5:10 am

Samonella wrote:Here's a much better version of the drums

Wow! It sounds great to me! :)

Samonella wrote:I tried putting it with Inky's latest recordings, but that didn't go very well

Is it a timing issue or something else? I put them together and the timing seemed correct? :hmm:

Samonella wrote:Also, I had a warm-up session with my trumpet so I'll hopefully get a decent recording within a day or two!

Cool! Looking forward to it 8)
Commented playthroughs with screenshots:
Let's Play Dead Water, Let's Play Invasion from the Unknown and Let's Play After the Storm (in progress)
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Re: The Wesnoth Minstrels

Postby Samonella » March 3rd, 2017, 5:17 am

Inky wrote:
Samonella wrote:I tried putting it with Inky's latest recordings, but that didn't go very well

Is it a timing issue or something else? I put them together and the timing seemed correct? :hmm:

Yeah, it was a timing issue actually. :hmm: I guess I just didn't put them together right? I only spent a few minutes trying, so probably. Could you post a version with them together? That's what I want to record mine to.
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Re: The Wesnoth Minstrels

Postby Inky » March 3rd, 2017, 5:31 am

How's this? I made one track with drums + the bottom part, and another with drums + the inner/bottom parts together.

For both I deleted the first drum beat to get them to fit together, so there will only be 3 beats before it starts.

Edit: For reference, this is how I lined them up in audacity - cello and drum downbeat are marked with a red line, so basically just cut off the beginning of the drums until they match up.
Spoiler:
Attachments
CelloDrums.zip
(1.68 MiB) Downloaded 32 times
Commented playthroughs with screenshots:
Let's Play Dead Water, Let's Play Invasion from the Unknown and Let's Play After the Storm (in progress)
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Re: The Wesnoth Minstrels

Postby skeptical_troll » March 3rd, 2017, 11:10 pm

Just a quick comment to say that the new drums and cello parts are great! :) I might have time tomorrow to add mine.

I must say that the intonation of both cello parts is really precise, I'm impressed!
Nitpicking: I think that the triplet at bar 3 is slightly rushed at the beginning, that's the only thing I'd try to fix.
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Re: The Wesnoth Minstrels

Postby Inky » March 4th, 2017, 12:21 am

skeptical_troll wrote:I must say that the intonation of both cello parts is really precise, I'm impressed!

:oops: Wow, thanks!!! :D
Actually there are still a few fishy notes in the lower part that bother me (D# in measure 6, C# in measure 7, the Bs later), I wonder if it's too late to try and fix it? :hmm: I think I will try to make a more in tune recording soon, in the meantime maybe just try to ignore me there :whistle:

skeptical_troll wrote:Nitpicking: I think that the triplet at bar 3 is slightly rushed at the beginning, that's the only thing I'd try to fix.

You're right! I can fix that (though this was in Samonella's part so it won't actually be used (?))
Commented playthroughs with screenshots:
Let's Play Dead Water, Let's Play Invasion from the Unknown and Let's Play After the Storm (in progress)
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Re: The Wesnoth Minstrels

Postby Inky » March 4th, 2017, 4:48 am

Sorry for absolutely spamming these, this should be the last one. :D

I rerecorded both parts, but I'm not sure it's any better as whenever I fix one thing something else goes wrong :augh:
I tried to fix the triplet in the inner part (now maybe it's too slow), and the D# in the bottom part at least :hmm:
Attachments
MainThemeCello.zip
bottom part, inner part, and bottom part + drums
(1.89 MiB) Downloaded 28 times
Commented playthroughs with screenshots:
Let's Play Dead Water, Let's Play Invasion from the Unknown and Let's Play After the Storm (in progress)
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Re: The Wesnoth Minstrels

Postby skeptical_troll » March 4th, 2017, 12:49 pm

I attach the two violin parts. I played the upper part and an inner part with some notes with are not (all) overlapping with the trumpet middle part. In particular, I think that the first 3 notes are not just octaves but empty E chords (there are always both E and B), so I added the missing note with the second part. Unfortunately, I recorded them listening to the old cello parts, with which they are reasonable in tune, but they are not with the new ones :doh: :augh:
I should have thought that the tuning could have changed :hmm: Why don't we stick with the old ones for now (or somehow transpose the violin parts) and wait for the trumpet to join? I'm sure there will be more things to fix anyway.
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violin_parts.tar.gz
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Re: The Wesnoth Minstrels

Postby Inky » March 4th, 2017, 5:07 pm

You sound just great!!!! :D The intonation sounds right on to me!! Amazing job!!

Only thing I would comment on (and this is only personal opinion) is the phrasing; I thought your first version (violin 1) was beautifully phrased, but in this version the phrasing has been lost a little bit because every note is being accented so strongly. (One example is measures 7-9 which I feel should sound like one long line). In general I feel the notes should be a little more connected, with not so much accent on the beginning, the way they are in your first version?

skeptical_troll wrote:Unfortunately, I recorded them listening to the old cello parts, with which they are reasonable in tune, but they are not with the new ones

That's okay!! It's way more important that we're in tune with each other! (Unfortunately my new ones have intonation issues too, though I think it's a little better in general)


Can't wait to hear what this is going to sound like in the end!! 8)
Commented playthroughs with screenshots:
Let's Play Dead Water, Let's Play Invasion from the Unknown and Let's Play After the Storm (in progress)
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Re: The Wesnoth Minstrels

Postby Samonella » March 4th, 2017, 8:21 pm

Wow, you guys just keep sounding better and better!
Inky wrote:Edit: For reference, this is how I lined them up in audacity - cello and drum downbeat are marked with a red line, so basically just cut off the beginning of the drums until they match up.
I see. Somehow I thought you were feeling the pulse a little ways into each note, but it sounds pretty good lined up like that.

OK: finally here is my first recording (which I am nowhere near happy with yet). I made them while listening to cello2 and the drums, but after trying to put it with the violin it seems obvious that I should have played them all together while recording. Hopefully I'll get some better ones tomorrow. There are plenty of obvious problems I'll try to fix, but if there are littler things you think I should address please mention them.

I tried to just zip up the whole audacity project, since we're all using that software, but I guess it was too big to upload? I didn't get a message saying that... it just wouldn't work.

Oh, the zip also contains a slightly updated version of the drums; the changes in dynamics were a measure late in the old one. Not that they change a whole lot anyway (if you want I can easily adjust that).
work.zip
(2.32 MiB) Downloaded 31 times


Also, I almost forgot to mention: I played measures 13-16 on ocarina instead of trumpet like I was planning. I tried it with both, but the low concert B is kinda hard to play in tune on trumpet. (But as you can hear, the low A is hard to play on my ocarina). Anyway, I'll try both again soon.
The last few months have been nothing but one big, painful reminder that TIMTLTW.

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Re: The Wesnoth Minstrels

Postby Inky » March 4th, 2017, 8:58 pm

Yeah!! We sound awesome! 8)

Samonella wrote:Somehow I thought you were feeling the pulse a little ways into each note

Ah, I may be guilty of that, my sense of rhythm is really bad :oops: :whistle:

Samonella wrote:OK: finally here is my first recording (which I am nowhere near happy with yet).

It sounds epic (especially the trumpet on those first 3 notes)!! :D
Just one small thing is that the ocarina seems to be playing a half note pickup to measure 6, instead of a quarter note.

EDIT: Also measure 4 sounds strange with no one playing D#-B-D# E, maybe trumpet should play that instead? :hmm:
Edit2: I could play that one phrase (measures 13-16) on cello, if it's too difficult to get the low A on ocarina/trumpet.

This is great! I hardly ever get the chance to play with other people in real life, so this makes me so happy :)
Commented playthroughs with screenshots:
Let's Play Dead Water, Let's Play Invasion from the Unknown and Let's Play After the Storm (in progress)
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Re: The Wesnoth Minstrels

Postby Samonella » March 5th, 2017, 5:08 am

Inky wrote:Just one small thing is that the ocarina seems to be playing a half note pickup to measure 6, instead of a quarter note.
Ooh, yup. I didn't even notice that, but will fix it next time.

Inky wrote:EDIT: Also measure 4 sounds strange with no one playing D#-B-D# E, maybe trumpet should play that instead? :hmm:
I could play the whole opening twice, once with each. An extra brassy sound there wouldn't be bad (assuming I can get two good recordings :roll: ).

Inky wrote:Edit2: I could play that one phrase (measures 13-16) on cello, if it's too difficult to get the low A on ocarina/trumpet.
So we'd have four measures of just strings? I think that would sound nice. I'll try playing them again, but whether or not it goes well I think this is a good option.

Inky wrote:This is great! I hardly ever get the chance to play with other people in real life, so this makes me so happy :)
:lol: Same here, it's been too long since I was in a band.

Oh, also, a couple audacity tips, though maybe you already knew these:
In the top menu bar, you can use Generate->Silence to move sound clips forward so you don't just have to rely on deleting to line things up (haha that's how I got all four clicks before the music start)
For skeptical_troll: maybe you've already tried this; it doesn't always work well. But if you haven't, try messing around with Effect->Noise Removal. You have to select a few seconds (the more the better) of just the background fuzz, then Effect->Noise Removal->Get Noise Profile. Then select the whole track and do Effect->Noise Removal->Ok. There are other options that I've tried messing with, only to moderate success on your clips, but maybe that's just because there wasn't a good enough sample of just the fuzz.
The last few months have been nothing but one big, painful reminder that TIMTLTW.

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Re: The Wesnoth Minstrels

Postby skeptical_troll » March 5th, 2017, 4:38 pm

Ok, here's another version. Now I tuned with the last cello parts (and the trumpet) and tried to separate less the notes as Inky suggested. I also tried to roughly assemble the parts we have so far.

The trumpet sounds great! A minor suggestion is to play quieter the bars 3-4, where the cello has the theme, and it's not as loud as the three opening notes anyway. Also, the ocarina is a nice touch, however the last few notes you play with it sound a bit low together with the strings, is there a way to fix that or is it just how the instrument is done?

If you could add a brass at the beginning it would be great. Could you play B-E-B instead of E-B-E (I do so in the 2nd violin part) with the second voice? Or is it too low?

I tried your trick to remove the noise, but I wasn't sure if it improved the sound so I gave up. :hmm:
Attachments
maint_theme_vl1_vl2.tar.gz
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Re: The Wesnoth Minstrels

Postby Inky » March 5th, 2017, 6:53 pm

I think your previous attachment actually had the same file (all parts together) 3 times? :hmm:

But what I heard of the violin part sounds incredible!!!! Beautiful tone, intonation, phrasing, everything!!! I'm just amazed 8)

It does sound cool with the inner string part but then I basically can't hear Samonella's awesome part at all anymore :augh: so maybe we should experiment with removing them (we could always have multiple versions).
Commented playthroughs with screenshots:
Let's Play Dead Water, Let's Play Invasion from the Unknown and Let's Play After the Storm (in progress)
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Re: The Wesnoth Minstrels

Postby Samonella » March 5th, 2017, 7:12 pm

Inky wrote:I think your previous attachment actually had the same file (all parts together) 3 times? :hmm:
Yeah, that's the same for me.

I tried recording again, still to older versions of the violin and cello because the only new violin recording also had my old recordings mixed in. Today I forgot to bring part of my recording stuff, so these are recorded by my laptop. It was giving me all kinds of issues; apparently it thought the ocarina was some unwanted buzzing noise it should try to filter out or something like that, because it kept dropping my sound towards the end of longer notes. So no new ocarina today.

I did get a some okay stuff for the beginning, mixing E-B-E with B-E-B, though personally I only hear E-B-E in the original. The last 4 measures are also slightly improved, though I couldn't get anything good for 13-16.
stuff.zip
(1.52 MiB) Downloaded 23 times

skeptical_troll wrote:Also, the ocarina is a nice touch, however the last few notes you play with it sound a bit low together with the strings, is there a way to fix that or is it just how the instrument is done?
Yeah, that's the bad thing about ocarinas, every note has exactly one volume that you can play it at if you want to be in tune. But I can always (in fact, already have in several places) edit the volume in audacity. Play around with these if you haven't:
picture
volume controls.png
volume controls.png (23.54 KiB) Viewed 468 times
The last few months have been nothing but one big, painful reminder that TIMTLTW.

Creator of Armory Mod, The Rising Underworld, and Vengeance of a Drake: an RPG
Samonella
 
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