Wesnoth sheet music

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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Post by Inky »

Your changes to 76-95 are great, it sounds a lot closer! Thanks for the help :) What I had written before literally hurt my ears to listen to...

I still haven't gotten around to taking another look at 57-76, but I went through that whole chord section again and I tried making some changes to your edit. I am not sure about these though, maybe I have just made it worse :whistle:

Changes (to Samonella's edit posted above):
  • 77-78 and 81-82: moved the F# down an octave, it sounds to me more like a perfect 4th than a perfect 5th
  • Top line of 78: it sounds to me like the B comes in right on beat 3, and beat 2 is just a rest?
  • 79: It sounds like there is a perfect 5th in the bottom notes? I also maybe hear B C B being played by another instrument? Or maybe, I have started to imagine things after listening to this section 3984783 times...
  • 82: That C on beat 3 sounded pretty fishy (I know, I am the culprit of that one), I tried replacing it with a B-F# chord?
  • 83: It sounds to me like the chords on beat 1 are the same as the chord on beat 3 of 82? The other chords seemed fishy too, I tried changing the Es to F#s, I think that sounds better?
  • 85, last chord: It sounds to me like there is still F# here, not E
  • 87-88: I think the Gs (I know, I am also the culprit behind these) should actually be F#s
  • 90, beat 2: I think the top note is still A? And maybe the middle note on beat 3 is F# instead of E
  • 91: I think the bottom notes are B all the way through? And maybe the middle notes are F#, the G doesn't sound right (guess who put that in too...)
  • 92: maybe the bottom chord is F#-B, I think this is the same chord that's in the later measures too
Does this sound closer? :hmm:
Samonella wrote:On a different note (no pun intended) I think it would be helpful if you gathered up all the more-or-less finished scores and updated the original post with them. Currently it would be a bit of a chore for users to search through and figure out which versions are finished and which aren't.
That's a great idea- I'll do that soon!

Edit: okay, that clearly wasn't right. Hopefully the versions posted below are more accurate...
Last edited by Inky on April 7th, 2017, 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Post by Samonella »

Hmm, maybe I just listened to my version too many times and erroneously convinced myself that it's mostly right, but I disagree with most of your edits. Here's the break down:
At least we're progressing... I think
Inky wrote:77-78 and 81-82: moved the F# down an octave, it sounds to me more like a perfect 4th than a perfect 5th
79: It sounds like there is a perfect 5th in the bottom notes? I also maybe hear B C B being played by another instrument? Or maybe, I have started to imagine things after listening to this section 3984783 times...
Hm, i don't hear the BCB at all, though I deeply sympathize with the 3984783 listens. And the weird droning noise doesn't discourage hallucinations either. Anyway, it sounds to me like the change from 78 to 79 is very small, and i'm almost certain i hear the F->G, the way I had it. Also, i'm pretty sure that something in 78-beat-2 is lower than the neighboring chords.
Inky wrote:Top line of 78: it sounds to me like the B comes in right on beat 3, and beat 2 is just a rest?
You're right, the B is right on beat 3, but I definitely hear the oboe or whatever stoop down most of an octave in between the 77-beat-1 A and the 76-beat-3 B.

80-beat-2 through 82-beat-1, you have the F# an octave down to match the chord in 77, but again I don't hear such a drastic change happening during 80, nor during 82.
Inky wrote:82: That C on beat 3 sounded pretty fishy (I know, I am the culprit of that one), I tried replacing it with a B-F# chord?
It does sound better staying on B, but i'd say to leave out the F#.
Inky wrote:83: It sounds to me like the chords on beat 1 are the same as the chord on beat 3 of 82? The other chords seemed fishy too, I tried changing the Es to F#s, I think that sounds better?
Es to F#s both sound ok to me (a bad sign, methinks) so F#s it is. But I definitely hear a change from 82-beat-3 to 83-beat-1. Maybe just dynamics, but I don't think so.
Inky wrote:85, last chord: It sounds to me like there is still F# here, not E
87-88: I think the Gs (I know, I am also the culprit behind these) should actually be F#s
Yep, i think you're right about these.
Inky wrote:90, beat 2: I think the top note is still A? And maybe the middle note on beat 3 is F# instead of E
I don't think it stays on the A, pretty sure it comes down some. But I think F#s sound better than the G's I had before? With that change, I think beat 3 sounds best without a middle note.
Inky wrote:91: I think the bottom notes are B all the way through? And maybe the middle notes are F#, the G doesn't sound right (guess who put that in too...)
92: maybe the bottom chord is F#-B, I think this is the same chord that's in the later measures too
You're probably right here. I think the only reason I changed to C was because I heard something on the bottom of the chord moving down from 91-beat-3+ to 92-beat-1. But putting a low F# on 92 takes care of that, and sounds more accurate anyway. And if the Cs change to Bs, then I agree that F#s are better than Gs. The only thing I disagree about here is that you removed the high D&B from beats 1&2 respectively of bar 92, and I definitely still hear them. (Also, I put the F#s on the hits in 97 to match the previous measures' ones.)
So there's that. But if you still think I'm wrong about some of those points, I probably am; you've already proven to have a better ear than I.

EDIT: Attachment removed, better version later
Last edited by Samonella on July 22nd, 2017, 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Post by Samonella »

Here's an update on Traveling Minstrels. First, i made all the edits Inky suggested clear back here, they all sounded good. I also started working on the left hand for the next section, but it's not going well. The only interesting change is that I tried combining my version of 67-82 with Inky/skeptical_troll's. It didn't take much finagling to make them fit together, and I think it sounds pretty good?

EDIT: Attachment removed, better version later
Last edited by Samonella on July 22nd, 2017, 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Post by Inky »

The first post is now updated with links to all the pieces in this thread!

Traveling Minstrels: Cool! I'll take a look at it soon!

Wanderer "creativity": aghhh you are right, I've been hallucinating things that aren't there from listening to that section way too much. :augh:
Samonella wrote: I definitely hear the oboe or whatever stoop down most of an octave
Hm, I still don't hear this (maybe I have gone deaf from listening to this passage repeatedly at high volumes), but I'm sure you're right (either way, it's not that important).
Samonella wrote:The only thing I disagree about here is that you removed the high D&B from beats 1&2 respectively of bar 92, and I definitely still hear them.
You're right! I didn't hear them at all at first, but I hear them now.

----
This time I tried listening to the passage an octave up (used the actual piece, it's difficult to hear much in the mp3 you posted), it is much easier to hear the middle voices that way I think. WARNING: If you do this, that high G at measure 81 will be really, really painful!

I basically hear two voices besides the oboe and the bass notes:
Spoiler:
The attached XML shows how they sound together. Am I hallucinating again??? :hmm:

EDIT: removed attachment, see later posts for final version
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Post by Samonella »

Inky wrote:The first post is now updated with links to all the pieces in this thread!
Looks good! 8)
Inky wrote:a bunch of other stuff
Oh dear, just when I thought we were wrapping up.
:lol: I'll try listening an octave up, but I probably won't get to it for a few days. Which is probably good, that will give me time to forget all my preconceived ideas about how it should sound.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Post by Inky »

I went through Samonella's update on Traveling Minstrels and tried to fill in the quarter note accompaniment in the second half. The quarter notes in Samonella's version didn't sound right to me so I rewrote those parts, hopefully it is closer? Some of it still seems fishy though...

For hearing the accompaniment it is very helpful to shift the pitch of the piece up an octave, the lower notes are much clearer that way. (And use a low pass filter if you don't want to go deaf)

I think the last part (after measure 117 when the top line has dotted half notes) should have some chords in the top line to make it more epic; it should be easy to fill in the notes once we're sure about the lower part.

And for the section after the beginning (measure 33), it feels to me like it would make more sense if the melody was on top, with accompanying chords underneath? :hmm:

EDIT: removed attachment, final version is here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=44192&start=75#p615568
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Post by Inky »

I've been working for a while on improving the Battle transcription, since I just love this piece so much!!
(I've been attempting to learn to play it and it's so much fun!! I'd love to try to make a cover sometime by recording the various parts and putting them together, but it is going to take a while since the piece is so long and a couple of the passages are extremely difficult... p.s. It's probably not going to happen anytime soon, but anyone's welcome to join in the cover by playing any part of the piece, even if it's just a few measures :) )

I added notes to a lot of places, most notably the middle section which was missing the inner voice. Some of the additions are rather questionable, but I think at least the middle section sounds a lot more epic now!
List of changes
  • I added some key changes so there are not a zillion accidentals all over the place. It seems like 1-44 is in Bb minor, 45-72 is C minor, 73-89 is F minor, and 89 to the end is mostly in C minor (with 116-123 being in F minor). I also changed the B naturals in the beginning to C flats so there aren't so many accidentals there. There are still going to be some incorrectly notated notes because I don't know enough music theory to identify all these weird chords, but it should be a lot more readable now!
  • Changed the tempo marking to 135 - I checked with a metronome that this is the exact tempo of the piece
  • Added a repeat to the slow section at 37 in order to get it to fit on that page (so now all the measure numbers after 44 are 8 less than in the previous version)
Measure # (based on this version):
  • 1-2: added the bottom line, and in 3-4 the bass line has (quarter notes) Db in m.3 and D natural in m.4, so I put those notes an octave up in the upper part.
  • 2, top line: moved the 16th note scale on beat 4 up by a 5th
  • 11-12 top line: added some notes, though it might not be playable and the beginning of measure 11 sounds a bit fishy
  • 18, top line: Added Gb-F-Gb to beat 4 (it's really soft the first time but much clearer on the 2nd repeat).
  • 20, top line: I clearly hear that 16th note D natural on beat 2, so I added it back
  • 37-44: tried to add in the middle voice here, not sure if it's right but it sounds plausible
  • 40 top line: D flat -> F (I think the top line stays on F while the middle line moves up to D natural)
  • 56-65: tried to write in the part for the violas, which are playing 8ths below the violins (Also, fixed the top line from 61-65). I think maybe the middle voice changes to A natural in m. 65 instead of staying on B natural, but I can't tell for sure.
  • 52, bottom line: changed the chords here - I think the top notes are C then G then C again. I removed the bottom octave for these chords since the top line is already playing those notes.
  • 53-60 bottom line: added some notes
  • 69-72 top line: added an 8th note C in m. 69 on the offbeat of 2 (played by the violas), and tried to write the viola part for 71-72. I believe the violas are doubling the violins on the first 2 beats of 71.
  • 73-80: tried to write the viola part into the bottom line but it was very difficult to hear so I'm not sure about it. I just wrote the notes as I heard them, so it will need some modifications to be playable.
    -Also added notes to the downbeats of 78-80 in the top line to emphasize them more.
  • 81-88: added some notes to the top line (mostly, just what the cellos are playing transposed up 2 octaves)
  • 89: moved the accent from beat 2 to the offbeat of 2
  • 93-100 bottom line: I think I hear basses playing an octave below the cellos, so I added octaves here. Also added a B natural half note to the 3rd beat of 100.
  • 95-97 top line: added the upper voice (G F F# G)
  • 101-107 top line: Middle voice - 101 G -> C, 105 beat 4 Ab -> F
    -104 beat 2: added back the top G, I think it's important because the upper voice changes notes on beat 2
    -106 beat 1: top note Eb -> C
  • 112-115 top line: added the whole notes in the middle voice
    -deleted the tie between 110 and 111, since the Eb is being rearticulated in m. 111
    -put accent marks on the 3rd beats in the lower line
  • 116-121: rewrote the 16th notes from scratch (don't ask how long I spent doing this...), I think it sounds kind of like what is in the piece?
As always any suggestions for changes/pointing out especially suspicious places is welcome! And if anyone out there is actually using these, I would welcome any suggestions on how to notate things better, improve readability, modify parts that aren't playable, etc.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Post by Samonella »

About Still Another Wanderer
Inky wrote:This time I tried listening to the passage an octave up (used the actual piece, it's difficult to hear much in the mp3 you posted), it is much easier to hear the middle voices that way I think. WARNING: If you do this, that high G at measure 81 will be really, really painful!

I basically hear two voices besides the oboe and the bass notes:
Bumping it up an octave didn't really help for me, it just made the Bs on the bottom of the chords more prevalent and ruined the sound quality. But the XML you posted sounds very good! Just a few changes:
  • All the places there was a G and an F in the same stem (83-86): even if the original has both of those notes (which I don't think it does) it also has other stuff going on that makes them sound good, whereas they definitely don't sound good in this piano score, so I took off the Gs.
  • I think that hearing it an octave up makes it pretty clear there are no low F#s at the end (92-97). There might be some relatively quiet F#s above the B? I'm not sure though.
  • Also, a bit unrelated, I bumped the 70-80 melody up an octave, not because I think it actually is, but to make it playable. It is still low enough to contrast the melodies that come before and after it.
EDIT: Attachment removed, better version later
About Traveling Minstrels:
Inky wrote:I went through Samonella's update on Traveling Minstrels and tried to fill in the quarter note accompaniment in the second half. The quarter notes in Samonella's version didn't sound right to me so I rewrote those parts, hopefully it is closer? Some of it still seems fishy though...
Definitely a huge improvement! Like I said, I wasn't happy with where I was going.
Inky wrote:I think the last part (after measure 117 when the top line has dotted half notes) should have some chords in the top line to make it more epic; it should be easy to fill in the notes once we're sure about the lower part.
Agreed. I'll take a closer look at the those parts later, probably later this week.
Inky wrote:And for the section after the beginning (measure 33), it feels to me like it would make more sense if the melody was on top, with accompanying chords underneath? :hmm:
Well, let me explain what I was aiming for: I wanted to make our Traveling Minstrels score an interesting piano solo as a whole, so I wanted some sections to be relatively simple compared to the others. If the accompaniment was playing quarter-note arpeggios the entire song long it would get rather boring.
  • So 33-60 was intentionally simple, with the melody beneath some simple accompaniment because that contrasts the rest of the song (where melody is on top). I was thinking about spicing up the second half of that section (50-60) somehow so it wasn't so simple for so long, but I'd do it while keeping melody on bottom. Probably it would mean making the accompaniment chords instead of single notes; there's plenty of stuff going on in the original for that.
  • In the same train of though, 67-82 had whole-note accompaniment; rather than go for the arpeggios that are playing through basically the whole song, I wanted to emphasize one of the things that (imo) is relatively prevalent in that section, namely the human-voice-ish chords that begin there. I also think they bring out the sing-song sort of feel that section has compared to the rest of the original; while the whole song is fluid and cheerful, this section in particular seems homogenous and relaxed, and I think the human-voice-ish chords are key to that.
About Battle
Wow, that sounds really really great! I have one little suggestion, which actually has nothing to do with the new additions. 124-beat-3, I hear a D as well as the G that's currently written, and I think the D is a little more prevalent. It would be strange to put a chord in that one beat while the rest of the section is single notes, so imo it sounds best like this:
ending.png
ending.png (3.28 KiB) Viewed 15208 times
but it's fine either way.
Inky wrote:I'd love to try to make a cover sometime by recording the various parts and putting them together, but it is going to take a while since the piece is so long and a couple of the passages are extremely difficult... p.s. It's probably not going to happen anytime soon, but anyone's welcome to join in the cover by playing any part of the piece, even if it's just a few measures :) )
8) The Wesnoth Minstrels strike again! I love it. But not for a while, for me.
Last edited by Samonella on July 22nd, 2017, 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Post by West »

Might this help?

You're going to have to figure out exactly what instrument plays what from the track names, but I guess this is better than flying blind.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Post by Samonella »

West wrote:Might this help?

You're going to have to figure out exactly what instrument plays what from the track names, but I guess this is better than flying blind.
:shock:
*unintelligible stuttering*
Yes, that does help. Tremendously. IDK if everyone already knows this, but MID files open right up with Musescore, so we can literally just sort through it and choose which parts we want. It's not even full of dotted sixteenths tied over bar lines or things like I was expecting, it's already human readable (besides that there are so many tracks). Thanks a ton!

EDIT: Here is trimmed down version; I only took out a few irrelevant parts, such as drones that carry through dozens of measures at a time and the percussion, and (more importantly) compacted everything else into just 8 tracks.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Post by Inky »

WHOA!!!! :shock:
West wrote:Might this help?
YESSSS it helps a ton!! Thanks a lot, West!!

The first thing I did was look up the notes to that passage :lol: (I didn't imagine the B G# E there after all!)

----
Replies to Samonella's post:

Traveling Minstrels: I agree with both of your points, it would get repetitive to have the quarter note stuff all the time.

Wanderer: Awesome, it is actually kind of sounding like the actual piece now!!!
Samonella wrote:Bumping it up an octave didn't really help for me
Hmm, I thought at least the middle line in the first few measures was quite clear.
Maybe try listening to this mp3?
I_never_want_to_hear_this_passage_again.zip
Wanderer measures 77-92, up an octave with a low pass filter
(378.2 KiB) Downloaded 723 times
On the downbeat of 83 it really sounded to me like the voice on the right moved down from A to G, while the voice on the left stayed on A, but I seem to have a very active imagination when it comes to hearing notes :whistle: Either way, as you said the G and A in the same chord sounds pretty fishy so it's probably better to leave out the G.

Battle: Really? The 2nd beat of 124 sounds very clearly like a high G to me and I can't hear any D :hmm:

The cover isn't going to happen anytime soon - I've been working on it a little bit every day and I've learned some of it, but it's going to take at least a few more weeks to learn all the notes (I wrote it in 3 different parts and it's 8 pages total :augh: ) But it is going to happen eventually!
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Post by West »

Great, glad to hear it was useful! Let me know if there are any other of my tracks I can help shed some light on.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Post by West »

Here's Journey's End as well if anyone needs it. I'm going through a lot of old project files here and some of them will not load (due to missing samples and plugins) but I 'd be happy to post midi files for the ones that will.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Post by Samonella »

West wrote:Here's Journey's End as well if anyone needs it. I'm going through a lot of old project files here and some of them will not load (due to missing samples and plugins) but I 'd be happy to post midi files for the ones that will.
Awesome! Thanks, keep 'em coming! I started organizing Journey's End, but I don't have anything presentable yet.

What I do have is a finished (hopefully, but you never can tell in this thread) piano score of Traveling Minstrels!

EDIT: Oh by the way, Inky how did you change the octave in our least favorite section of wanderer? It sounded much better than when I used audacity->effects->change pitch.
At any rate, it sounds like we're calling it quits with that piece, so I made one little edit in a different section (added an octave E to 57) and attached a pdf version.

EDIT: Attachment removed, better version later
Last edited by Samonella on July 22nd, 2017, 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Post by Inky »

West wrote:Here's Journey's End as well if anyone needs it.
This is great! I love Journey's End!! Thanks again West, this is so nice of you!
Wanderer
For some reason your version was filled with all these weird ties everywhere, so I copied your changes to 77-97 to my version and attached that.
For the chords in 93-97, it seems plausible to me that the bottom note is a low E? :hmm:

I still don't know what's going on with the rhythm in that middle section, I did try putting it with a metronome at 150 but it seemed most things didn't fall on the beat and I was a bit too lazy to investigate it further :P

I think most of it is *approximately* correct, except for that figure at measure 63 which should be more like (this is not exactly it either) Edit: that's supposed to be 3/4, I wrote it on a blank score without checking the time signature...
measure63.png
measure63.png (2.42 KiB) Viewed 15078 times
but changing that would also require changing something else...
Samonella wrote:Oh by the way, Inky how did you change the octave in our least favorite section of wanderer?
I used Transcribe! which is a paid (used the free trial - I'm way too cheap to buy this kind of stuff) transcription software, that I found while googling for transcription tips. (By the way the only useful tip I found was the thing about raising the pitch of the piece by an octave. Other "tips" were basically "train your ear" which is not really a "tip"). It has a note/chord guessing feature which I found much too inaccurate to be useful, I guess sadly there is no shortcut for learning to transcribe...
Traveling minstrels
Awesome!!!!! It sounds just great! :D Nice work!

I think some of the rhythms aren't accurate though - basically I think the rhythms I originally wrote were correct :P

Measure #:
42: I think the G A here is just quarter notes, just like everywhere else. It does sound like the G is a bit longer than the A but certainly not twice as long.
88: Isn't the rhythm here dotted quarter D, 8th note C, quarter A? Though your version does sound very cool!
90: I don't hear any syncopation here. Maybe it is an instrument I am not hearing?
96: These 3 notes sound like they are all the same length to me, so I think they're just quarter notes.
123: Pretty sure these notes start on the downbeat; you can hear the accompaniment give a clear downbeat at the same time the note starts.
130: I hear the accompaniment play on the downbeat but not on beat 3. Even if there is a C on beat 3, having it by itself sounds strange.
147: I don't think there is anything fancy going on here, just 8th notes with ritardando; the A is certainly not twice as long as the E.
Awesome work!!! 8) I'll update the links in the first post.

edit: argh forgot about measure 57! just a sec... edit2: oops, there were still a few weird ties at 76-92 - fixed.
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WandererXML.zip
same as Samonella's but without the weird ties
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Wanderer.pdf
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