Wesnoth sheet music

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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Postby Samonella » April 13th, 2017, 6:27 pm

Ahah, looks like I spoke too soon about being done. :lol: Should have known better.

Wanderer
Inky wrote:For some reason your version was filled with all these weird ties everywhere
:hm: I'm not sure what you mean, I double checked the pdf and the xml and didn't notice anything unusual. But whatever, as long as it's fixed.

Inky wrote:For the chords in 93-97, it seems plausible to me that the bottom note is a low E? :hmm:
I still don't think there's an extra low note there, but sure, E doesn't sound bad.

Inky wrote:I still don't know what's going on with the rhythm in that middle section, I did try putting it with a metronome at 150 but it seemed most things didn't fall on the beat and I was a bit too lazy to investigate it further :P
I know what you mean, I never actually took a close look at that section. Maybe I will in a couple days. Maybe.


Traveling minstrels
Inky wrote:42: I think the G A here is just quarter notes, just like everywhere else. It does sound like the G is a bit longer than the A but certainly not twice as long.
88: Isn't the rhythm here dotted quarter D, 8th note C, quarter A? Though your version does sound very cool!
90: I don't hear any syncopation here. Maybe it is an instrument I am not hearing?
96: These 3 notes sound like they are all the same length to me, so I think they're just quarter notes.
Right, so I wasn't really listening to the actual piece, was just going of the MIDI which quite clearly has these measures the way I wrote it. But listening again, the song does have everything pretty clearly the way you wrote it. Others that fall in this same category ate the melodies at 94 and 54, pickup to 107, and 106-107 harmony. Perhaps the MIDI is a bit out of date? I suppose it's better to go with the published, .ogg version. Though I am rather attached to some of the new versions, bar 88 in particular. :mrgreen:

Inky wrote:123: Pretty sure these notes start on the downbeat; you can hear the accompaniment give a clear downbeat at the same time the note starts.
I think they sort of ease into it, so they do start a bit early but they don't really land home until the downbeat. Since pianos can't exactly ease into notes, methinks you're right, it shouldn't be syncopated in our score.

Inky wrote:130: I hear the accompaniment play on the downbeat but not on beat 3. Even if there is a C on beat 3, having it by itself sounds strange.
Okay, so these four measures were pretty hard to arrange. All that's going on is the rising half-notes in the low brass, the arpeggios on the harp or whatever it is, and percussion. It sounds bad if the piano score only includes the brass part because the pulse kind of gets lost. Trying to include harp sounds bad because then it just appears out of nowhere and disappears into nowhere. And of course including a tambourine or snare is out of the question. So I started with the harp part in the treble clef, then took out as much of it as I could while still maintaining a pulse. But you're right, it didn't work so well. In the attachment is try two, where I put some of those notes inside the left-hand. It's at least better, I think?

Inky wrote:147: I don't think there is anything fancy going on here, just 8th notes with ritardando; the A is certainly not twice as long as the E.
The midi's rhythm was actually this:
midi_rhythm.png
midi_rhythm.png (2.5 KiB) Viewed 1600 times
So, while simplifying, I already made the A shorter. But you're right again, I don't hear anything like that in the .ogg.

So this version is mostly loyal to the .ogg, I think the only places i went with the midi was 88 and 147. Or at least those're the only places I meant to. I just think that those slightly mixed-up rhythms add a lot to the piano score.

I also updated the last chord a bit, since last time I got mixed up and thought it was already in bass clef... :whistle: that's another tricky part, since the original is a giant blend of As, F-naturals and G-naturals that spans well above and below the normal staves. Trying to re-create it in two human hands' reach takes a lot of experimentation and I'm not sure I found the best mix yet.

EDIT: Attachment removed, better version later
Last edited by Samonella on July 22nd, 2017, 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Postby Inky » April 13th, 2017, 9:31 pm

Wanderer
By weird ties, I meant things like this were everywhere in both the XML and the pdf:
measure151.png
measure151.png (4.64 KiB) Viewed 1584 times
The upper left note should be a half note and the others should be dotted halfs.

93-97: We'll just leave it as it is (without the E) then, that seems the safest option :D

55-76: Well, "creative" rhythms sound less bad than "creative" notes, so I just thought "close enough..." :whistle:


Traveling Minstrels
Measures 88 and 147 sound to me like someone trying to play Traveling Minstrels after having had one drink too many :P
I think it's because I have listened to the piece so many times that they sound weird to me. But they do sound interesting, so I guess it's "creative liberty" :eng: :D
EDIT: measure 112 also features the "creative" rhythm

33: I think it would be nice if the downbeat was differentiated more from the second beat, to make it clear that they are not part of the same phrase. According to the score there is also a B being played on the downbeat- I think either adding a B beneath the E on the downbeat or changing the E to the B would do this?

EDIT: 121 is missing an 8th note in the bottom voice.

130: I think it sounds nice! Good work!

The whole thing just sounds so awesome!! 8)
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Postby Samonella » April 14th, 2017, 1:45 am

Inky wrote:Measures 88 and 147 sound to me like someone trying to play Traveling Minstrels after having had one drink too many :P
I think it's because I have listened to the piece so many times that they sound weird to me. But they do sound interesting, so I guess it's "creative liberty"
Lol, very eloquent. I suppose it's best to leave "creative liberty" to the performer so I cleared it out of the score. But this is one that I think I'll actually practice playing, and I'm going to "creatively" follow the midi. :P :P

Inky wrote:33: I think it would be nice if the downbeat was differentiated more from the second beat, to make it clear that they are not part of the same phrase. According to the score there is also a B being played on the downbeat- I think either adding a B beneath the E on the downbeat or changing the E to the B would do this?
How about a B above the E? There's a nice rising line on the half notes that I think a low B would mess up.

Inky wrote:EDIT: 121 is missing an 8th note in the bottom voice.
Em, not sure what 8th note you mean, I don't hear/see any in either the .ogg or the midi. Well, the highest choir voices come in on +of1, but I doubt that's it.

Also I made one slight change to the bar 24 harmony's rhythm that is in the midi and (i'm pretty sure) the ogg.

EDIT: Attachment removed, better version later
Last edited by Samonella on July 22nd, 2017, 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Postby Inky » April 14th, 2017, 2:02 am

33: sounds good!

121: sorry, wasn't too clear. I mean there is an 8th note's worth of time missing:
Spoiler:

Samonella wrote: But this is one that I think I'll actually practice playing, and I'm going to "creatively" follow the midi.

Yeah!!! 8) :D :) That's so awesome!!! Good luck!!
I was honestly wondering whether anybody besides me was actually trying to play these. If you would like to share, I would love to hear a recording of it!

(I am still practicing battle but it stills sounds a lot like nails on a chalkboard...)
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Postby Samonella » April 14th, 2017, 3:05 am

Inky wrote:121: There is a dotted quarter followed by a quarter, which doesn't add up :P
Ah, I see now. I fixed this, and a handful of formatting things, so this is (or better be :lol: ) the final version! As a special feature, it seems that the xml didn't even add a bunch of random page-breaks all over!
~~Automatically edited by MFARS according to suggestions made by Inky on Apr 13, 2017
~~Later edited again by normal old me, because this version of the song was rubbish. Don't worry MFARS, it wasn't your fault.

Inky wrote:
Samonella wrote: But this is one that I think I'll actually practice playing, and I'm going to "creatively" follow the midi.
Yeah!!! 8) :D :) That's so awesome!!! Good luck!!
I was honestly wondering whether anybody besides me was actually trying to play these. If you would like to share, I would love to hear a recording of it!
Sure, but it will be a while. Most likely, it will be a while before I even start practicing.
Last edited by Samonella on July 24th, 2017, 3:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Postby Inky » April 14th, 2017, 5:51 am

I listened to it yet again and I am sorry to report that I've found another fishy sounding spot :augh:

On beats 2-3 of measure 79 I think the top 8th notes are A C# E A and then F# on the downbeat of 80 (this is what I hear in the piece and also written in the score); you have C# E A C# and then A instead.
Images:
Also tiny nitpick: measure 24 would be more readable if the two 8ths on beat 2 were beamed together.

Samonella wrote:Sure, but it will be a while. Most likely, it will be a while before I even start practicing.
Yeah, learning new pieces is really slow and really time consuming :( No need to hurry or even post the recording at all if you don't want to; I am only curious what the piece sounds like with an actual player since it is far beyond my measly piano skills :whistle:
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Postby Samonella » April 14th, 2017, 8:45 pm

This is a MFARS automatically generated response on behalf of
Samonella.
If you are reading this, it means that the person you are trying to contact either fell ill or rage quit. Please hold while your request is being processed. ^_^ ^_^

~ ~ ~
Estimated time to completion: 107 seconds.
~ ~ ~

Your request has been accepted. The previous post made by
Samonella.
has been updated. Thank you for your time and consideration! ^_^ ^_^
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Postby Inky » April 15th, 2017, 12:59 am

Wow, this MFARS has a lot of features, even automatic edits! :D 8)
Practicing some of the passages in Battle is making me feel ill/want to rage quit, maybe I will need my own MFARS :whistle:

I updated the first post's link to Traveling Minstrels. Don't worry, I didn't find anything else, so it should be safe for Samonella to come back now :)
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Postby Samonella » May 1st, 2017, 6:21 pm

Yep, always nice to have an MFARS backing you up. Anyway, here's a condensed version of Journey's End. I started arranging it into a piano score, but am having a hard time doing it justice so there's a good chance it will end up as a duet. 8)
Attachments
journey.zip
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Postby Samonella » May 3rd, 2017, 5:18 pm

A duet it is, and here's the first draft! There are still plenty of problems, but when there's a reasonably finished version I'll also post separate pdfs for the 1st and 2nd parts.

EDIT: Attachment removed, better version later
Last edited by Samonella on July 22nd, 2017, 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Postby Inky » May 4th, 2017, 4:44 am

Awesome!!!! :shock: :) 8)
I just haven't had the chance to work on these recently, so it's really really great that you've done all the hard work :D :P

  • Personally I like the sound of m. 1-8 an octave up, but either way works. Also, you accidentally made the low E in measure 1 invisible.
  • m. 4, first two beats (and similar): The B jumps down an octave on beat 2 (so there's a quarter note B, then 8th note B an octave down)
  • 16th note pickup to m.8 (and similar): I would notate these as grace notes, I feel like that would make it clear that these notes are really connected.
  • m. 16, 3rd beat of upper line: this should be G A (8th notes), there's no C in this part.
  • m. 19: The dotted quarter G here should be a quarter note (it is different from m. 11)
  • m. 32 top line beat 4: I think that high G starts right on beat 4
  • m. 35 melody: I think the beginning of this measure is a half note D, followed by a quarter note D with an E grace note in front.
  • m. 43 melody beat 4: The C is a dotted quarter, not a quarter
  • m. 51-68: I think that beat 4 of 51 is actually a downbeat; in other words this whole section is shifted by a half measure. What I would do is either write measure 48 as a 9/4 bar, or write the first 3 beats of 51 as a 3/4 bar.
  • m. 59: I love how you just dumped that run at the end and left it as an exercise for the reader :lol:
    How about only including the second octave of the scale, like this?
    Spoiler:
  • m. 59 3rd beat: I see the G# A written in the score, but I just cannot hear it at all when I listen to the piece; I'd remove it anyway to make playing the run possible.
  • m. 67: the 8ths here are either grace notes or 16ths, they're definitely faster than 8ths.
  • m. 69 onward, top part of piano 2: It looks like the XML messed up the clefs here, it has it in treble clef so there are tons of ledger lines.
  • m. 70: Is "deccel." actually a musical term? I have only ever seen "rit." or "rall." (rallentando). Anyway the slowing down mostly seems to happen around measure 75.
  • m. 72 top: I think instead of B it should be dotted quarter D, 8th note C#, quarter B, dotted half A.
  • m. 75 - 76 top: I think the rhythm is dotted quarter E, 8th F#, quarter G, dotted half A. (It's just really slow due to the rit.)

This is sooo cool! Nice work!!!
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Postby Samonella » May 4th, 2017, 7:08 am

Inky wrote:Awesome!!!! :shock: :) 8)
I just haven't had the chance to work on these recently, so it's really really great that you've done all the hard work :D :P
Well, it's a bit tremendously easier with the midi. :lol:

stuff
Inky wrote:Personally I like the sound of m. 1-8 an octave up, but either way works.
Yeah, either way. Imo it's better to be consistent with the following measures.

Inky wrote:Also, you accidentally made the low E in measure 1 invisible.
:? No idea how that happened, I didn't even know that was possible.

Inky wrote:m. 4, first two beats (and similar): The B jumps down an octave on beat 2 (so there's a quarter note B, then 8th note B an octave down)
Oh right, before I decided to make it a duet I was trying to simplify it enough for both of those parts to be on the same hand. Back in now.

Inky wrote:m. 16, 3rd beat of upper line: this should be G A (8th notes), there's no C in this part.
Not sure what you mean? Is "16" possibly a typo?

Inky wrote:m. 32 top line beat 4: I think that high G starts right on beat 4
Yeah, that was supposed to imitate the glockenspiel's clicking effect that seems particularly prominent on that note. But if you think it sounds too "creative" then out it goes. ;)

Inky wrote:m. 51-68: I think that beat 4 of 51 is actually a downbeat; in other words this whole section is shifted by a half measure. What I would do is either write measure 48 as a 9/4 bar, or write the first 3 beats of 51 as a 3/4 bar.
Right you are, can't believe i didn't notice something funny going on. :roll:

Inky wrote:m. 59: I love how you just dumped that run at the end and left it as an exercise for the reader :lol:
How about only including the second octave of the scale?

m. 59 3rd beat: I see the G# A written in the score, but I just cannot hear it at all when I listen to the piece; I'd remove it anyway to make playing the run possible.
Haha, I went through the bother of cleaning up the run from the midi, so i didn't want to give up on it too easily. I think your suggestion sounds pretty good, but maybe it's a bit better (and definitely easier to play) with an extra note at the beginning so you don't have to start on a sixteenth-off-beat.

Inky wrote:m. 69 onward, top part of piano 2: It looks like the XML messed up the clefs here, it has it in treble clef so there are tons of ledger lines.
Typical. Do you happen to know a way around that? At least the pdfs are ok.

Inky wrote:m. 70: Is "deccel." actually a musical term? I have only ever seen "rit." or "rall." (rallentando). Anyway the slowing down mostly seems to happen around measure 75.
Em, I was probably being creative again. :oops:

One other thing to watch out for: I think I was pretty careful to make sure the two players would never need to play on top of each other, but I could easily have missed a place. (If the right-left hand of one person have to play over each other that's also bad but not nearly as important.)

So hopefully that covers all of the detail-ey things. There is a much more general problem though. In the most exciting part of the song, mostly 52-69 but also the section before it, the original song relies on robust instrumentation and percussion to sound epic, but there really isn't too much in the way of chords or counter-melodies that a piano can capitalize on. I'm thinking about just adding a lot of octaves to the whole-note chords (and maybe adding notes from the melody too) but hopefully you have a better idea?

EDIT: Attachment removed, better version later
Last edited by Samonella on July 22nd, 2017, 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Postby Inky » May 5th, 2017, 3:03 am

Re: stuff
Samonella wrote:No idea how that happened, I didn't even know that was possible.
If you select a note/rest and press v it makes it invisible, it's good for hiding rests when you have multiple voices.
Samonella wrote:Not sure what you mean? Is "16" possibly a typo?
oops, I meant to say the 6th beat of m. 16 should be 8th notes G A.
Samonella wrote:Typical. Do you happen to know a way around that? At least the pdfs are ok

I have no idea what causes the clefs to get messed up, but it's fixed in the recent xml.
Samonella wrote:One other thing to watch out for: I think I was pretty careful to make sure the two players would never need to play on top of each other, but I could easily have missed a place.

I didn't notice any overlap between the parts.

Mostly just nitpicks:
  • m. 24-25: I think the bottom line is missing some notes (E D C# A | B ) - these are in the full score but got cut out of the condensed version
    bar24.png
    bar24.png (10.31 KiB) Viewed 1247 times
    (I thought it sounded better with the bottom chord repeated but either way works)
    Also a nitpick, I'd put a double bar line before the key change to make it easier to see.
  • m. 33: top scale: Just an opinion - I think it would sound better/closer to the piece to have the G A B be a triplet
  • m. 47 top: I think it's just quarters? I can't hear that part but it would be weird if only that one measure was different
  • m. 53 onward: there are a lot of dotted halfs tied to the same dotted half (e.g. bottom of m. 53, top of m. 54), which should be written as dotted whole notes. Also in m. 77 the quarter + half notes should be dotted halfs.
  • m. 65: there's a random staccato G in the middle of the measure

Samonella wrote: In the most exciting part of the song, mostly 52-69 but also the section before it, the original song relies on robust instrumentation and percussion to sound epic, but there really isn't too much in the way of chords or counter-melodies that a piano can capitalize on. I'm thinking about just adding a lot of octaves to the whole-note chords (and maybe adding notes from the melody too) but hopefully you have a better idea?

Bang on the keys really hard and use a lot of pedal? :D :whistle: I don't know, maybe one thing to try would be to transpose the melody (2nd line from top) an octave down and put that in the bottom part (3rd line from top), since in the piece the oboe is playing the melody an octave down in 51-69.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Postby Samonella » May 8th, 2017, 6:39 pm

Re: Re: stuff
Yep, sounds good. :D

Inky wrote:Bang on the keys really hard and use a lot of pedal? :D :whistle: I don't know, maybe one thing to try would be to transpose the melody (2nd line from top) an octave down and put that in the bottom part (3rd line from top), since in the piece the oboe is playing the melody an octave down in 51-69.
Well I added some stuff. It's definitely better than when the 3rd line was just empty, but still not the most exciting part of the song. Banging and pedals it is I guess (though I have no idea how to even manage the pedal in a duet). Also, I did add a touch of creativity in a couple places...

EDIT: Attachment removed, better version later
Last edited by Samonella on July 22nd, 2017, 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wesnoth sheet music

Postby Inky » May 9th, 2017, 3:36 am

It sounds awesome, hooray for creativity!! :D

The one place where I felt it got too creative was the D# in measure 58 beat 6 which sounds weird with the A; the A isn't part of the harmony and is only there to connect the G# and B so it doesn't make sense to emphasize it.

Other very minor stuff:
-A potential idea to make m. 51 a little more interesting - maybe have the middle voice come in on beat 3 with (8th notes) C# D, it would sort of simulate the crescendo there? Also the downbeat of 52 could definitely be more epic; I would try adding some As and C#s to the upper octaves.

-m. 55 bottom voice: I would use A instead of C# in the bottom chord, there are already enough C#s going on there :P

And to nitpick some more, measures 54, 58 and 63 still have the two dotted halfs tied together.
And maybe put some courtesy C#s in measure 42, on the offchance that someone will actually play this :)

---
I also think it would be nice if we made a version for one piano, it shouldn't be too hard to paste it together using parts from the duet. It wouldn't be as epic but I imagine it would be more useful for the average person. I could give it a try, unless you'd like to work on that (I imagine you'd do a better job than me :whistle: )
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