Metal for Wesnoth

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Re: Metal for Wesnoth

Postby Dixie » May 27th, 2013, 1:46 pm

Well composing anything is hard work. Creating anything is hard work. When you have a finished result, you may not want anybody to mess with it, just because to you it's defiling of your hard work. You may not agree with TimothyP's philosophy, but I think you should respect it. He worked hard to make this composition his own, as perfect as possible. He has certain moral rights over his piece and you should respect them...

So if you really want to do anything about it I'd say try to contact him, pick another piece by someone else or keep the music to yourself...
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Re: Metal for Wesnoth

Postby fabi » May 28th, 2013, 12:52 am

Moved to a more appropriate section of the forum.
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Re: Metal for Wesnoth

Postby Saahnebrei » May 28th, 2013, 5:47 pm

I wonder if this is really "more appropiate" , as i'm not exactly developing music for the game.

When i started to plan my tribute-to-.. project, i didn't think that it could be so complicated as Wesnoth *and* it's music is all GPL2. First i didn't read the musicdev's forum, that says "restricted", because i supposed it would ask for a special secret password, that only "officials" have or what. I didn't even try to click on it..... until two days ago.
That very large and extremly interesting thread about the GPL/art/music now makes me extremely unsure if i should go on with my project.

I'm terribly sad, that Timothy and Aleksi seem to have abandoned BfW. :cry:

Really.

I wrote an email to M. Westlund last year to ask for his permission, he didn't even answer.
I didn't write yet to any of the others, because i thought, maybe it would be better to finish
my recordings first, then send it to them, so they could listen to it and decide if they like it,
and then publish it or not.
But as they wrote in the forumthread about GPL and music, Aleksi, West and Timothy *absolutely*
don't want anybody to modify their music.
In that thread , they write a lot of respect for the art/artist and everything.
One is writing , that if someone "steals" their music , it shows that the thief *loves* their art, otherwise he wouldn't steal it.
I totally agree with all that. I'm not trying to "steal" something. I love their art and doing versions of it is my way to show that love.

You may not agree with TimothyP's philosophy, but I think you should respect it. He worked hard to make this composition his own, as perfect as possible. He has certain moral rights over his piece and you should respect them...


Exactly. I agree. He (and Aleksi) somehow misunderstood that GPL-thing.
But i respect their moral rights 100%.
The music is GPL'ed so from a legal point of view i just could rip the music and give a sh-- (sorry) about the rest **but that's not MY point of view** (!!).
I would have asked for permission anyway.
But now i've got my answer in that GPL-discussion, and it's NO.
:(
I will write to them .... Maybe i can seduce/convince them somehow.

An interesting aspect of that old discussion is that they talk about what is sourcecode of music.
I only needed my ears to re-engineer it. :whistle:
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Re: Metal for Wesnoth

Postby fabi » May 28th, 2013, 6:46 pm

My opinion is that this "It is all GPL but we ask politely" policy we established is just silly and against the GPL itself.

At the moment you submit something under the GPL and take profit from the benefits of open source,
you loose the right to deny based on works.

Please just do your metal versions and publish them here under the GPL.
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Re: Metal for Wesnoth

Postby Dugi » May 28th, 2013, 7:06 pm

Recording a synthetised song is not exactly editing it, IMO. You are covering it, making a new song from the old tune, Saahnebrei - Ïnto thë Shadöws (Alexi cover).
I would personally put some Severed Fifth, a death/thrash metal band playing GPL music, but the problem is that most people don't appreciate good music.
Last edited by Dugi on May 28th, 2013, 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Metal for Wesnoth

Postby fabi » May 28th, 2013, 7:17 pm

Dixie wrote:Well composing anything is hard work.

Creating anything is hard work.


Indeed, coding is so as well.
If any coder would claim to not alter his class he contributed to Wesnoth we would be in serious problems.
The problem is the attitude of the artists that their work deserves some special treatment just because it is "art".

When you have a finished result, you may not want anybody to mess with it, just because to you it's defiling of your hard work.

Then open source projects are no environment for you.
Search for a different project to contribute to, we sadly can't accept your help then.

You may not agree with TimothyP's philosophy, but I think you should respect it.

No.
Neither agree nor respect that philosophy.

He worked hard to make this composition his own, as perfect as possible.
He has certain moral rights over his piece and you should respect them...

No, trying to deny the GPL guaranteed rights with pseudo moral arguments is just a stupid misbehavior.
The moral problem is on the artist's side.
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Re: Metal for Wesnoth

Postby lipk » May 28th, 2013, 7:57 pm

Indeed, coding is so as well.
If any coder would claim to not alter his class he contributed to Wesnoth we would be in serious problems.
The problem is the attitude of the artists that their work deserves some special treatment just because it is "art".

Yes, artists are different than coders. Just like how fishermen are different than linguists and linguists are different than salesmen. If you want artists to make contributions, you have to provide conditions under which they are happy to contribute. There's a so-called "right to artistic integrity" in many countries, by the way.
My opinion is that this "It is all GPL but we ask politely" policy we established is just silly and against the GPL itself.

Maybe. And, what? What is the GPL to us? It's our god, our ideology or... just a handy tool? If it doesn't serve well (and it has been noted many times before that it does not serve well in case of artistic stuff), we should just replace it.
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Re: Metal for Wesnoth

Postby fabi » May 29th, 2013, 4:22 am

... If it doesn't serve well (and it has been noted many times before that it does not serve well in case of artistic stuff), we should just replace it.


I do not agree on this.
But out of curiosity, what license do you suggest?
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Re: Metal for Wesnoth

Postby lipk » May 29th, 2013, 5:56 am

I do not agree on this.
But out of curiosity, what license do you suggest?

Some version of CC, for e.g. Unported. (For the artwork only, the code could remain GPL).
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Re: Metal for Wesnoth

Postby zookeeper » May 29th, 2013, 6:10 am

:annoyed:

Just in case someone might assume otherwise: the opinions of any given developer are not (necessarily) representative of the opinions of the development team as a whole.
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Re: Metal for Wesnoth

Postby West » June 7th, 2013, 5:36 pm

Saahnebrei wrote:I wrote an email to M. Westlund last year to ask for his permission, he didn't even answer.


As a matter of fact, I did. I said go right ahead with it. I even offered to make a guest appearance on guitar on some tune.

Never heard from you again.
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Re: Metal for Wesnoth

Postby West » June 11th, 2013, 9:12 pm

...and history repeats itself :roll:
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