Storyline Music

Create music and sound effects for mainline or user-made content.

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CheeseLord
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Storyline Music

Post by CheeseLord » September 4th, 2011, 4:43 pm

Just creating a separate thread from the main post by Tyler here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=34839 , so things don't get cluttered up :D

The link to the mp3 version is here: http://www.box.net/shared/22za0er4f86mjt4ke34s and of course, feel free to comment and give feedback. Anything you think think of and want to say about this piece? Shout it out loud!! 8)
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Tyler Johnson
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Re: Storyline Music

Post by Tyler Johnson » September 5th, 2011, 3:04 am

Thanks for making a new thread, and I like this piece. High quality samples as well, well done. A few notes right here:

at :27 something is out of tune, only for about a second though, and the harmony from :38-45 is a bit too modern, remember this game is set in a fantasy world, but musically we're set in the Classical/Romantic era (think 1850s-1900). I would strongly suggest listening to to more Tchaikovsky, Ravel, and Rimsky-Korsakov to get a feel for the harmonic outlook we're looking for. That section reminded me of something I would see in a modern anime, not Wesnoth :)

The harmony from :53-:55 is perfect! That's what we're going for. More of a classical/romantic era style (think melodic minor scale).

The Percussion hit at 1:01(timpani I believe) was a bit too strong for my ears, I think it would serve a better purpose if it were just a bit more subtle, maybe something the listener doesn't hear the first couple times through, but subtle enough to notice a transitional element, if that makes sense.

And the ending was just a tad short...are you planning on keeping it this way? I would lengthen it just a bit more, at least a whole note ;)

I like it though, this is exactly the "storyline" music we need!

-Tyler

EDIT: After listening again, the note at :27 is slightly sharp for a full measure.

Perhaps instead of a piano (which was rarely utilized outside of Concerto performance) try a harp instead :) Give it a shot, it might work better for the game.

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CheeseLord
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Re: Storyline Music

Post by CheeseLord » September 5th, 2011, 8:56 pm

Thanks for the comments, some really solid feedback and nitpicking :D I've tried to address the issues you flagged up in a revised version here: http://www.box.net/shared/yc69xgspm0p7sfh19bre
Tyler Johnson wrote:A few notes right here:
at :27 something is out of tune, only for about a second though, and the harmony from :38-45 is a bit too modern, remember this game is set in a fantasy world, but musically we're set in the Classical/Romantic era (think 1850s-1900). I would strongly suggest listening to to more Tchaikovsky, Ravel, and Rimsky-Korsakov to get a feel for the harmonic outlook we're looking for. That section reminded me of something I would see in a modern anime, not Wesnoth :)
At :27, I checked and pinned down the source to a sharpened clarinet note, so I changed the patch to a different one, and it seems to have worked. The modulation at :37-45 was actually heavily inspired by Mahler 1, Mvt 3 (pretty cool piece IMHO :D ), who I guess bridged the gap between classical and modern. I changed the sequence to a more traditional move up the scale to C major before going back to D minor, it sounded more 'natural' me, not completely sure whether it's better, but here goes!!
Tyler Johnson wrote:The Percussion hit at 1:01(timpani I believe) was a bit too strong for my ears.
Definitely, I think I mentioned that back in the other thread. I've toned down the first note a little which will probably help.
Tyler Johnson wrote:And the ending was just a tad short...are you planning on keeping it this way? I would lengthen it just a bit more, at least a whole note ;)
I've done a little bit of editing, nothing too fancy though - I feel as though at this point if I tinker with it too much I'll ruin it, seems like polishing a piece of china :) I THINK it finished the piece off better, not 100% sure though.
Tyler Johnson wrote:I like it though, this is exactly the "storyline" music we need!
Thanks ever so much, it's an honour to receive such praise from a member of the Wesnoth Pantheon of Developers :p Hopefully this improvements I made (or should I say 'improvements') fit the bill ;)

EDIT: Forgot to mention the thing about the piano. Earlier today, I tried the opening 6 bars with a harp instead, however, I personally strongly think that the piano sounds far more magical and appropriate at this point - is the inclusion of a piano a major problem?? I could show you the version with the harp instead, but I think you'd probably think it sounds pretty awful. After :07 with those arpeggios I replaced the piano with a harp - not fully sure what you'll think of it, but oh well 8)
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Re: Storyline Music

Post by Tyler Johnson » September 5th, 2011, 9:45 pm

I'll have a listen to this later today, but I just wanted to say this:

We've had numerous pieces that have had piano in them try to be submitted, and nothing has worked. If you listen to any of our music, there is no piano in any of it. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I have never seen anyone be able to include it in such a way that would fit the Wesnoth world.

Try this, encode that file as an .ogg file using VLC and replace it with a file of the same name in /core/music within your Wesnoth folder, something that plays during a transition or storyline element (backup the original first). Play the game and see if it works or if it stands out like a sore thumb.

The piece may sound great and work for many applications, but Wesnoth is very specific in regards to instrumentation.

-Tyler

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CheeseLord
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Re: Storyline Music

Post by CheeseLord » September 6th, 2011, 9:49 pm

Right, so I did some tweaking. I tried the non piano version here - http://www.box.net/shared/fr5rqb0z3m082jzraxb8 , and the piano here: http://www.box.net/shared/yc69xgspm0p7sfh19bre ...I don't feel significant difference - TBH, I personally prefer the piano one, but I guess I've just familiarised myself with the first, and any edits (to my ears) sound out of place. When I pasted it into the game, I thought they were pretty similar, and you're right in that to me, it sounds more in line with other wesnoth mainline pieces. What do you think though??

Thanks :D

P.S. Just thought I'd mention that Silvan Sanctuary by West has a chockload of piano in the middle ;) - it is a new addition though I guess :)
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szopen
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Re: Storyline Music

Post by szopen » September 8th, 2011, 7:49 am

If I may, I would want to state an opinion from the point of view of the player.

I understand the policy of music having the consistent feel. Indeed, how much this is a great idea I have understood only after including bunch of my favourite songs in the campaign and then wondering why the result is so bad if each of the songs is great. But nevertheless, wesnoth campaigns are placed in them continuum of several hundred years. Therefore, I do not think anybody would complain, if the campaigns set up in some other part of Wesnoth timeline, would have different feel to the music.

For example. I feel that UtBS could have modernised versions of music -- as it is set up in centuries after the HttT. Of course this would work only if all music to the UtBS would have the same feeling; So I understood that the chances of this happening are quite close to zero.

In the same time, this means you could gather the songs which do not fit current Wesnoth music feel -- maybe in future there would be enough songs to create different "feel" {you could define in future moods for campaign creators, like DEFAULT_PERIOD ROMANTIC_PERIOD MODERN_PERIOD}. In many cases this is not the problem of the music themes, but of using samples and instruments and providing 'modern' versions of some themes should be easier than creating totally new songs; For example, Mr. Johnson's "one thousand suns" does not fit "romantic" feel of Wesnoth; But I feel that if it would fit UtBS -- on the condition there would be more songs like that.

Just my opinion.
"Even when the Slav is gay the effort is often evident" -- P. R. RADOSAVLJEVICH

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CheeseLord
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Re: Storyline Music

Post by CheeseLord » September 9th, 2011, 9:44 pm

Just posting updates for my piece - the piece is now finished (in my ears at least), and the final draft is here: http://www.box.net/shared/4jr0ky4f1rl69ioe7njg Hopefully you'll feel that's up to scratch for mainline, but I guess that's not for me to decide :) I've finally replaced the piano with some stuff which hopefully sounds just as good - if you feel this could go into mainline, feel free to flag up any nitpicks/problems. If you feel otherwise, I'd still appreciate some feedback; it's all part of the learning curve after all!!

@szopen This sort of decision whether to include 'modern' music in wesnoth would be huge IMHO. We already have the UMC music pack (which probably is already has a few more 'modern' compositions), but in terms of mainline...should elves have electric guitars?? :P I dunno - I'd love for there to be a pack of grooves spice things up, but I think you've hit the hammer on the head when you raise the issue of 'there has to be other pieces like that'. I suspect to find 3/4 pieces of the quality and similar style of 'One thousand Suns' at a mainline standard with the author's permission under GPL is almost wishful thinking.

Just giving my £0.02 here, HOPEfully that little ramble made sense ;)
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Sapient
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Re: Storyline Music

Post by Sapient » September 10th, 2011, 6:13 am

It sounds good, but I had a couple of reservations about it. Sorry for commenting so late into the process, but I have very little musical training and I am not in charge of music development, so I am hesitant to post my opinions in here.

1. That string note that hangs on so long in the beginning. It goes for around 40 seconds in a piece that's only 1:25 long in total. That's about one third of the entire track. The note starts pleasant, but after a while I feel it has overstayed its welcome, so to speak.

2. This track seems really peaceful and relaxing. It could work for storyline music, but that's not what I picture for most cut-scenes. Sure, it should be slow paced, but it needs to convey a sense of mystery or intrigue. There should be tension lying just underneath the surface.
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szopen
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Re: Storyline Music

Post by szopen » September 12th, 2011, 7:32 am

CheeseLord wrote:@szopen This sort of decision whether to include 'modern' music in wesnoth would be huge IMHO. We already have the UMC music pack (which probably is already has a few more 'modern' compositions), but in terms of mainline...should elves have electric guitars?? :P I dunno - I'd love for there to be a pack of grooves spice things up, but I think you've hit the hammer on the head when you raise the issue of 'there has to be other pieces like that'. I suspect to find 3/4 pieces of the quality and similar style of 'One thousand Suns' at a mainline standard with the author's permission under GPL is almost wishful thinking.
No no, I am not arguing that everyone should start making modern music :) I simply wrote, that the Wesnoth mainline campaign are set up over extended period of time and it would be perfectly sensible to think, that the mood for the HttT can be be different from UtbS. While it is not possible now, I think developers may gather the songs which does not suit the "wesnoth mood" now, with the thought that in the future, if enough such songs would be gathered, another "mood" could be created for some "later" campaigns. So CheeseLord's version with piano could be part of that "different mood" songs in the far away future versions of wesnoth.
"Even when the Slav is gay the effort is often evident" -- P. R. RADOSAVLJEVICH

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