Fallen

Create music and sound effects for mainline or user-made content.

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Zajoman
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Fallen

Post by Zajoman » May 25th, 2009, 8:56 am

Hi, guys.

I'd like to contribute. For that, I need your opinions on my new piece. It is a work in progress, so please, do not expect a perfect mix. What I need is your opinion, so that I know if this piece has a chance to get into the game or not.

Thanks in advance.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/rssal9

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Adri42
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Re: Fallen

Post by Adri42 » May 25th, 2009, 3:17 pm

I think this has a chance to get into the game, but you really need better samples.
Critic:

Zajoman
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Re: Fallen

Post by Zajoman » May 26th, 2009, 6:23 am

Adri42 wrote:I think this has a chance to get into the game, but you really need better samples.
Heh, when I found this orchestral library sitting on my disk, I thought I had a grail. I used to work with standard GM before, so I was awed by the library's sound. Well, now, I'm to reconsider it.
I really like the use of diminished chords and minor chords with #6, but I do not recommend to change them into D79 until the next part begins.
Sorry to ask you, but what chord is D79? I don't know this chord and I can't find it anywhere. Is it the exact and correct name? I'm the kind of musician who composes more by his ears than theory, so to be honest, I could not recall what chords I used if you asked.
Your samples are not the best ones. I would recommend to you to use some of the free samples West posted here.
Thank you. I will definitely look at this.
And please avoid Swing / Reggae rhythms!
Are they? :) I don't like swing and reggae myself. As for orchestral music, I was amazed by the Doom and Doom 2 soundtrack orchestral pieces, and that's where my rhythm preferences come from. I thought they fit.

Thanks for your feedback, Adri.

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CheeseLord
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Re: Fallen

Post by CheeseLord » May 26th, 2009, 9:34 am

Hi

It seems to have potential.......probably needs to be humanized etc. but overall it's quite good :)

BTW, is that orchestral library free??? It's fairly decent :D If it's free, do you know where you got it from??? It'd be a nice addition to my library...

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Zajoman
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Re: Fallen

Post by Zajoman » May 26th, 2009, 10:37 am

I found it last week on a disk from my old computer. I think it's called Orchestral. I don't have internet at home, so I'm just guessing. It has around 130 MB. A professional game musician gave it to me in a company I worked for several years ago. I don't know if it's free, sorry.

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West
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Re: Fallen

Post by West » May 26th, 2009, 9:46 pm

Hi Zajoman and thanks for your contribution.

I'm afraid that this composition isn't likely to end up in the game. Honestly, it bears no resemblance to an orchestral piece, which is what we're primarily looking for. You're using the percussion like it's a drum kit and the instrumentation is very odd overall. At 2:36 or so, I have no idea what instruments are playing. It sounds like someone blowing on very large bottles. The tune is also very repetitive, as it basically has only two different parts and goes on for more than four minutes.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear. But this piece doesn't speak to me, it evokes no emotions in me. TBH it's quite dull. To quote the Music Contribution FAQ:

A good thing to keep in mind is that Wesnoth music is supposed to be a soundtrack, not just "background music". It is meant to enhance the gaming experience rather than just being an unobtrusive sonic backdrop. In other words, a repeating percussion pattern with some string pad chords and a flute melody on top will not be accepted. As a rule of thumb, the music should be interesting to listen to on its own.

IOW, if you want to contribute I'm afraid you're going to have to work a little harder.
Zajoman wrote:I found it last week on a disk from my old computer. I think it's called Orchestral. I don't have internet at home, so I'm just guessing. It has around 130 MB. A professional game musician gave it to me in a company I worked for several years ago. I don't know if it's free, sorry.
Edirol Orchestral, most likely. It has some nice patches, but overall it's pretty much an overpriced toy and it requires more work than it's worth to make it sound passable. If you're serious about this, I really recommend investing in something better. It will make your life easier and your composing more rewarding.

Edit: and BTW:
Zajoman wrote:As for orchestral music, I was amazed by the Doom and Doom 2 soundtrack orchestral pieces, and that's where my rhythm preferences come from. I thought they fit.
Doom and Doom 2... orchestral pieces? I remember unbearably corny heavy metal tunes made with General MIDI. Is there some other Doom soundtrack?

Zajoman
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Re: Fallen

Post by Zajoman » May 27th, 2009, 11:07 am

The tune is also very repetitive, as it basically has only two different parts and goes on for more than four minutes.
This is very true. Some people like repetitiveness, some don't. And I understand that it might not fit with the Wesnoth style.
Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear.
You needn't say sorry, I'm not a cry-baby, I'm ready for criticism. I know some people cannot stand it, but I can. And, that is exactly what I want to hear - the truth.
But this piece doesn't speak to me, it evokes no emotions in me. TBH it's quite dull. To quote the Music Contribution FAQ:

A good thing to keep in mind is that Wesnoth music is supposed to be a soundtrack, not just "background music". It is meant to enhance the gaming experience rather than just being an unobtrusive sonic backdrop. In other words, a repeating percussion pattern with some string pad chords and a flute melody on top will not be accepted. As a rule of thumb, the music should be interesting to listen to on its own.
This cheered me. It is ironic that this is the exact text I read before starting the work. But, if I listen to it now, I must say it really is a repeating pattern with some string chords and a flute melody, exactly. :) The truth is that although I have made many songs using GM, I have just started with some real orchestral samples, and that takes time to get used to. So, yes, perhaps my try was too hurried.
IOW, if you want to contribute I'm afraid you're going to have to work a little harder.
Which is exactly what I'm looking forward to.
Edirol Orchestral, most likely. It has some nice patches, but overall it's pretty much an overpriced toy and it requires more work than it's worth to make it sound passable. If you're serious about this, I really recommend investing in something better. It will make your life easier and your composing more rewarding.
Oh yes, you got it. Good to know that it is not a grail as I thought it was.
Doom and Doom 2... orchestral pieces? I remember unbearably corny heavy metal tunes made with General MIDI. Is there some other Doom soundtrack?
Both Doom soundtracks are well known for their hardcore heavy metal tunes, that's right. But amongst them are hidden pearls which, in their thinkable way (GM), resemble of orchestral music. And they are quite beautiful, too. At home, I have a much enhanced version of all tracks made by some fan composer (sure as heaven not GM). If you want, I will send you the orchestral pieces.

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ancestral
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Re: Fallen

Post by ancestral » May 27th, 2009, 6:10 pm

User-made campaigns might however be interested in music like this, given they're not only fantasy, but in a wide variety of genres, including steam-punk and sci-fi. Hard to say, but you could revise it and perhaps it could be picked up by someone. But yeah, generally the closest you can get to the Wesnoth orchestral feel the better.

Hmmm, do we have a list somewhere of mod projects that are actively looking for music?
Wesnoth BestiaryPREVIEW IT HERE )
Unit tree and stat browser
CanvasPREVIEW IT HERE )
Exp. map viewer

Zajoman
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Re: Fallen

Post by Zajoman » May 28th, 2009, 7:11 am

ancestral wrote:User-made campaigns might however be interested in music like this, given they're not only fantasy, but in a wide variety of genres, including steam-punk and sci-fi. Hard to say, but you could revise it and perhaps it could be picked up by someone. But yeah, generally the closest you can get to the Wesnoth orchestral feel the better.
Hmm, I didn't think of this. But sure, if anyone likes it and wants to use it, I'm all for.

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West
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Re: Fallen

Post by West » May 29th, 2009, 10:24 am

Zajoman wrote:You needn't say sorry, I'm not a cry-baby, I'm ready for criticism. I know some people cannot stand it, but I can. And, that is exactly what I want to hear - the truth.
Very good. I was just trying to be diplomatic as some people tend to get a bit defensive when you criticize their music in a matter-of-fact way. The discussion usually goes downhill from there... :)
Zajoman wrote:This cheered me. It is ironic that this is the exact text I read before starting the work. But, if I listen to it now, I must say it really is a repeating pattern with some string chords and a flute melody, exactly. :) The truth is that although I have made many songs using GM, I have just started with some real orchestral samples, and that takes time to get used to. So, yes, perhaps my try was too hurried.
Yes it takes time getting used to it. Lots and lots of time. Best thing you can do is keep at it and experiment with different ways of combining the instruments at your disposal.
Zajoman wrote:Oh yes, you got it. Good to know that it is not a grail as I thought it was.
Don't get me wrong, EO is not terrible. If you have a legit copy of it I see no reason why you can't use it for certain things (there's a lovely violin section IIRC, and also a few nice brass patches), but it's not an end-all solution. I have it myself but I don't use it anymore because it refuses to behave like other VST instruments -- it doesn't save its settings between sessions, so you have to load separate config files for each instance of the plugin when you open a project -- which annoys the hell out of me.
Zajoman wrote:Both Doom soundtracks are well known for their hardcore heavy metal tunes, that's right. But amongst them are hidden pearls which, in their thinkable way (GM), resemble of orchestral music. And they are quite beautiful, too. At home, I have a much enhanced version of all tracks made by some fan composer (sure as heaven not GM). If you want, I will send you the orchestral pieces.
Please do, that would be interesting to hear.

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Adri42
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Re: Fallen

Post by Adri42 » May 29th, 2009, 2:59 pm

Zajoman wrote: Sorry to ask you, but what chord is D79? I don't know this chord and I can't find it anywhere. Is it the exact and correct name? I'm the kind of musician who composes more by his ears than theory, so to be honest, I could not recall what chords I used if you asked.
Look here: Extended chord - Wikipedia

Zajoman
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Re: Fallen

Post by Zajoman » June 2nd, 2009, 9:29 am

Adri42 wrote: Look here: Extended chord - Wikipedia
Thanks.

West, here are the songs. Listening to them again after a long time, I must take back what I said earlier. They're not orchestral in almost any way, they just use some typical orchestral arrangements and a few instruments like violins, violas, etc. http://www.sendspace.com/file/nc5yw1

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West
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Re: Fallen

Post by West » June 2nd, 2009, 6:41 pm

Zajoman wrote:West, here are the songs. Listening to them again after a long time, I must take back what I said earlier. They're not orchestral in almost any way, they just use some typical orchestral arrangements and a few instruments like violins, violas, etc. http://www.sendspace.com/file/nc5yw1
Tastes differ and I know we all like some stuff for nostalgic reasons rather than any inherent quality. That said, I think those tracks are quite mediocre. But then I also think Doom was quite a mediocre game :)

Zajoman
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Re: Fallen

Post by Zajoman » June 3rd, 2009, 6:26 am

But then I also think Doom was quite a mediocre game :)
Man, this is an insult to the God of Games. (I'm joking.)

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West
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Re: Fallen

Post by West » June 3rd, 2009, 8:18 am

Zajoman wrote:
But then I also think Doom was quite a mediocre game :)
Man, this is an insult to the God of Games. (I'm joking.)
I think the God of games should get his act together, as I haven't seen him performing any miracles for years :P

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