Wesnoth Tactics: Strategical Cardgame

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Wesnoth Tactics: Strategical Cardgame

Postby eyerouge » February 1st, 2010, 7:31 pm

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What
  • Free (GPL) card game played on the kitchen table or on the internet using open source engine(s).
  • Strategical, 1h playtime, 2 player, max 60 cards per deck, little to no randomness.
  • Not a clone of BfW, nor an adaptation or translation attempt, but rather a game on it's own merits thats in the same universe. I.e. units are still named the same way and influenced by the BfW ones, but the goal isn't to re-create BfW on the table.
  • We have artwork for at least 120+ units thanks to the great and talented artists here in the Wesnoth community.
  • We also hire artists to get new original and delicious artwork done for new cards.
  • "Only" thing needed for a finished game is the rules. Thats's where we're at right now.

Where
All info you crave after >> http://WTactics.org

Developers & Artists wanted
If you are interested in one of the below...

a) developing a brand new rule set on your own or with your friends
b) help develop and/or playtest the original rules we're developing.
c) contribute with additional artwork
d) contribute in any other way

...please contact me on contact at subversiva dot org after you've read everything on the WTactics site or drop a post in here. If you do, please give as detailed information as possible on what you want to do. You can also post in here if you have questions, ideas and other thoughts.

Goal is to develop a kick ass strategical game. We have the raw material. Now we only need the rules and the work force, and that's where the community comes into the picture. By harnessing the powers of the collective we can get at least one playable rule set finished.

Up for the task? ;)

Notice: Developing a game takes a long time. We're talking months of finetuning and playtesting, and you should realise this before wasting everyone's time. We're only interested in working with mature individuals that can actually present arguments for why something should/shouldn't be in a game, and which can also meet the design goals for WTactics. If you have totally other design goals in mind, think Frodo is a hero, use a language where 3|:T3 actually means anything you're probably not who we seek.
Last edited by eyerouge on January 9th, 2011, 3:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Wesnoth Tactics: Strategical Cardgame

Postby Kalajel » February 1st, 2010, 9:20 pm

Well, I'm not a big fan of CCGs, but I do like to try them out every once in a while…

So far this looks interesting. I'll give it a try and let you know…
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Re: Wesnoth Tactics: Strategical Cardgame

Postby eyerouge » February 1st, 2010, 9:31 pm

Kalajel wrote:Well, I'm not a big fan of CCGs, but I do like to try them out every once in a while…

So far this looks interesting. I'll give it a try and let you know…


Even if it may look like a traditional CCG it's really far from it. (I'm an old ccg player myself, and I can understand why some people avoid ccg even if some of them are okey...)

In any case, the game becomes what you make of it. If you don't like ccg:s or whatever in any other game then here's the material to create a game you do like, and, which hopefully others will like and find fun and interesting to play as well.
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Re: Wesnoth Tactics: Strategical Cardgame

Postby ahyangyi » February 11th, 2010, 1:26 pm

It looks very contentfull, and it's clear that you have put much efforts in it. I'm not going to try it very soon though. Being a non-native English speaker, reading that much English is tiring :(
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Re: Wesnoth Tactics: Strategical Cardgame

Postby Aura » February 11th, 2010, 6:01 pm

You should try to develop an AI and set up an online version that can also be played VS the computer. That'd be great and probably would get more players too.
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Re: Wesnoth Tactics: Strategical Cardgame

Postby lostnumber » February 11th, 2010, 9:06 pm

looks fun, I might look about getting involved at some point if I find some free time.

I used to be huge on MTG and dabbled in DBZ and some of the other card games back in the day.
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Re: Wesnoth Tactics: Strategical Cardgame

Postby Zerovirus » February 11th, 2010, 9:43 pm

I suggest you make the life approximately equal to the real unit's hitpoints divided by 10 and rounded down.
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Re: Wesnoth Tactics: Strategical Cardgame

Postby eyerouge » February 13th, 2010, 3:20 pm

ahyangyi wrote: I'm not going to try it very soon though. Being a non-native English speaker, reading that much English is tiring.


It's not done yet, since nobody is interested in helping out. :P On another topic: What's your native language? Would you be interested in translating the finished game to it (the cards and rules) once we're done?


Aura wrote:You should try to develop an AI and set up an online version that can also be played VS the computer. That'd be great and probably would get more players too.


That's fully doable but I'm uncertain it's worth the time and effort, even if I agree that it would attract more players. Personalyy I won't code that since my time must be spent on developing the game itself, but I'd welcome anyone who's interested in doing so.

lostnumber wrote:looks fun, I might look about getting involved at some point if I find some free time.


Please do...but keep in mind that time is never found - it's always taken/created ;)

Zerovirus wrote: suggest you make the life approximately equal to the real unit's hitpoints divided by 10 and rounded down


a) A units HP is tracked by placing tokens on it. Hence, we don't want a game where you'd have to place a lot of tokens all of the time. Keeping that kind of admin work minimal is a design goal and HP:s have been kept low on purpose for, among other things, that reason.

b) I imagined a game where new units are bought at least once every turn or every second turn, in average, and a game that only lasts max an hour. By giving everyone higher HP those two things will not be the case.
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Re: Wesnoth Tactics: Strategical Cardgame

Postby usr-sbin » February 14th, 2010, 7:37 pm

I really like the style of the cards, I think that they look very professional. Unfortunately I don't think I can dedicate any time to it at the moment but I will be able to help in about 3-4 months.
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Re: Wesnoth Tactics: Strategical Cardgame

Postby Velensk » February 16th, 2010, 2:30 pm

I'm not sure how exactly this would play in effect but this is a gameplay idea you could work with.

In addition to the unit cards this would require a neutral deck of 49 terrain cards that can be shuffled and dealt out to form a 'board' but I don't think that it would be too hard to generate these.

If you have any questions or any need of clarificaiton just send me a pm (I suspect you will I wrote this up pretty quickly and I havn't had time to edit it.
Attachments
WesnothCardGame.txt
(8.48 KiB) Downloaded 435 times
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Re: Wesnoth Tactics: Strategical Cardgame

Postby eyerouge » February 23rd, 2010, 11:12 pm

(Will send a PM as well in case you don't follow the thread. Chose to write in public as there's nothing private about it and to avoid double-work etc...)

Great initiative Velensk! I read it through and this is what my initial thoughs are. (Keep in mind I haven't done any playtestig on it and that I may be wrong here...)

a) It probably takes longer than 1h to play and setup.

b) A grid of 7x7 cards (49 on total) would have the dimensions of 65,1 x 47,6 cm (with 5 mm between each card) since a single card is 63 x 88 mm in size. It could be a problem since it requires the game to be played on a fairly large area for a CCG. Also, if the terrain cards are always at the bottom, and other cards placed on them, the terrain cards will be covered. If not, then even more table space will be used.

c) A practical but pretty important issue: If the terrain cards are always on the bottom and unit cards are moved on/off them - what holds them in their place? Moving around units on a 7x7 card grid will make them all turn and move all of the time. As such, the grid idea would be great if it was printed on some kind of playing mat or thicker and larger carboard terrain pices, but if so, it's in conflict with the design goals which say no boards or board like preparations must be used.

d) A lot of token handling due to their HP: It's impractical due to the units moving and also because it will further the problem in c) as well as adding more admin work for the players.

I get a feeling that the game you suggest is almost more fit to become a miniature game with real minis and a real solid terrain board/mat instead of it being played with ccg:s. The only advantage the cards have for what you present is their cost efficiency over miniatures and the fact that they look great (well, at least I think they do) and most peoples minis don't since they can't paint.

However, it doesn't have to be a bad idea because of my ramblings. It's just my thoughts on it this far. That been said, I would still gladly offer you total access to the site and set you up with an account so you can puvlish your ideas/material what not if you're intersted - I think the more of them there is the better, and I also think we help each other by sharing our thoughts. It gives inspiration and new insight. (And while I'm at it I can willingly admitt that my current original rules (ORC) suck and have to be re-worked from the ground...;) )

Edit: Added d) after a closer look at card suggestions.
Last edited by eyerouge on February 24th, 2010, 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wesnoth Tactics: Strategical Cardgame

Postby Blarumyrran » February 23rd, 2010, 11:41 pm

@Velensk, Goblin Superman does sound cool
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Re: Wesnoth Tactics: Strategical Cardgame

Postby Ardent » February 24th, 2010, 9:08 am

Just an idea - the terrain cards could have multiple terrains (2 per card? or even 6 would be possible) next to each other, so that the game area can be reduced. If you would use some kind of tokens to identify units on the table, you wouldn't have to move them around - so you would have a line of units, each with a token identifying it placed atop the unit and on the "map" (cardboard with numbers for tokens?).
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Re: Wesnoth Tactics: Strategical Cardgame

Postby Velensk » February 24th, 2010, 10:02 am

@Ardent: The use of proxy counters can work great in some circumstances and it might be worth trying for my idea, however there are a few problems with it. Having the card with it's stats clearly visable for all to see makes it much easier to make decisions than read token check over to enemies line read stats then check all adjacent units. This is especially the case when your decisions will revolve not only around a single enemy unit but every enemy unit in an area. A slight improvement on this idea that I know of would use poker chips. In addition the the identification chips (which come in pairs) there would be a number of hit point chits which could be stacked underneith it so it's quite readilly seeable how much life various targets have.

If you do use proxy counters then having multiple terrains per card seems link a very good idea, you could drop the grids size down to a 4x4.

When making idenification markers, I'd suggest making them with a letter and a number (like B4). This way a player can effectively assign a letter to each unit type he has making it easy for him and his opponent to identify what units are where and the number should distinguish between units of the same type.

EDIT: To clarify

By multiple terrains per card I was thinking something like this(the H's represent the center of a hex)
EDIT2 I can't get this to show up right in the browser due to the fact that the tops/bases of the cards take up much less room than the insides.
Code: Select all
/------\ /------\ /------\ /------\
|   H       | |   H        | |   H       | |   H        |
|        H  | |        H   | |        H  | |        H   |
|   H       | |   H        | |   H       | |   H        |
|        H  | |        H   | |        H  | |        H   |
\------/ \------/ \------/ \------/
/------\ /------\ /------\ /------\
|   H       | |   H        | |   H       | |   H        |
|        H  | |        H   | |        H  | |        H   |
|   H       | |   H        | |   H       | |   H        |
|        H  | |        H   | |        H  | |        H   |
\------/ \------/ \------/ \------/
/------\ /------\ /------\ /------\
|   H       | |   H        | |   H       | |   H        |
|        H  | |        H   | |        H  | |        H   |
|   H       | |   H        | |   H       | |   H        |
|        H  | |        H   | |        H  | |        H   |
\------/ \------/ \------/ \------/
/------\ /------\ /------\ /------\
|   H       | |   H        | |   H       | |   H        |
|        H  | |        H   | |        H  | |        H   |
|   H       | |   H        | |   H       | |   H        |
|        H  | |        H   | |        H  | |        H   |
\------/ \------/ \------/ \------/


Although a bit awkward it would keep the hexgrid intact. It might be practical to draw lines going between the hexes and off the edge of the card to meet up to make the pathing easier to follow.
Last edited by Velensk on February 24th, 2010, 3:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Wesnoth Tactics: Strategical Cardgame

Postby eyerouge » February 24th, 2010, 3:36 pm

Ardent:

I basically share Velensk thoughts on the token idea, and would want to add to it:

While a game is indeed totally playable the way you suggest to create it, I believe the add abstraction layer which the proxy counters bring to it is a bad thing because of the reasons Velensk stated (clarity, ease to understand what's going on where etc) but also because it lacks visual appeal.

Such a game, played with tokens, will, however they look like, not be something a regular person picks up. Heck, even chess has a greater aesthetical appeal to it than this game would have :P Normal people want to see an elf, a goblin, a whatever. I myself don't have that urge and can play perfectly abstract games with just sticks and stones and still be as happy, but the casual mainstream player will not even give such a game a chance in most cases. Hence, such a game will most likely never become established or something which even stands a fair chance of being judged by it's game play.

Part of the problem lies of course in the fact that we're developing a game which we want people to be able to create them self with ease. That coupled with the cost efficiency (whenever a person has to work a lot to create something, and on top of that pay a lot to create it well, then he/she'd usually consider the commercial alterantives instead which are already assembled and nicely painted etc etc)

Lastly, I personally even believe that minature games like Warhammer, AT43 (below) etc also have the same abstraction problem to a certain degree - by looking at a mini you can't actually see it's HP, it's powers, weapon, ability etc etc. You must have a couple of cards or lists on the side of the game and use them as references. What saves the miniature games and what would not save your idea is the beauty of the miniatures - people can live with the abstraction since minis are cool in their eyes. They are in "3d" and are detailed and make the game feel alive, and that compensates a lot for the reference digging between/during turns.
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