Recruiting Units

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Ave
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Post by Ave »

I would prefer multi selection either by a checkbox or by highlighting the selected units. Then summoning would walk along the list until money/hexes run out.

Eponymous-Archon
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Post by Eponymous-Archon »

Is it possible to have a sub-menu in the CM on right-clicking? Then you could allow recruit to go right to the unit you want. Recall too, I suppose.
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charlieg
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Post by charlieg »

Ave wrote:I would prefer multi selection either by a checkbox or by highlighting the selected units. Then summoning would walk along the list until money/hexes run out.
Definitely by highlighting / selecting.

Checkboxes are only for yes/no decisions. "Yes I want this 'single thing' to be done."
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Sithrandel
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Post by Sithrandel »

charlieg wrote: Definitely by highlighting / selecting.

Checkboxes are only for yes/no decisions. "Yes I want this 'single thing' to be done."
Check boxes are fine for recalling, as each unit can only be recalled once after all. They have the distinct advantage of not being prone to slips. I find that multiselection can get irritating in non-contiguous selections where you release the key whilst thinking then forget to press it for the next selection and thus lose those previously selected.

Granted, checkboxes per se are no good for recruiting, but the box with a number in or blank -> checked -> 2 -> 3 -> etc might be possible in a DIY widget. Left click increases, right click decreases.

charlieg
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Post by charlieg »

Sithrandel wrote:Check boxes are fine for recalling, as each unit can only be recalled once after all. They have the distinct advantage of not being prone to slips. I find that multiselection can get irritating in non-contiguous selections where you release the key whilst thinking then forget to press it for the next selection and thus lose those previously selected.

Granted, checkboxes per se are no good for recruiting, but the box with a number in or blank -> checked -> 2 -> 3 -> etc might be possible in a DIY widget. Left click increases, right click decreases.
I don't think we'd be doing the 'shift select' windows method. Simple 'select each unit once' to select. It'll never be enough units to merit a group selection (ie shift+select), but instead simply be singlular selection (ie ctrl+select).
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jmosher
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More elaborate recalling solution

Post by jmosher »

The show-stopping problem of all proposals so far has been the inability to specify which hexes your troops will appear on. Here's an idea that would involve a lot of work but would get around the problem:

Recalling would bring up the menu of troops as usual, but also a schematic of the castle with all free hexes numbered. You would then queue troops, entering a hex number next to each unit you want to place. Dynamically updating pulldowns beside each unit might be best, so that you don't get confused and asign two units to hex #5. If you thought better of an assignment, you would just set the unit back from "5" to "None." When you hit "Done," all units would be placed at once.

To manage the growing unit list, how about filters? Perhaps the simplest way would be to use keyword searching ("level 3," "Dwarf," "leadership," "Archer"). This would make some filters require AND or OR ("Hero and strong," or "Marksman or sharpshooter").

Also, how about sorting? I can imagine the value of sorting by movement, movement type, alignment, level, number of XP to next level, hit points, and melee or ranged weapon type.

For recruiting, the current system does not seem broken. Perhaps it would be good to add a GUI version of the "repeat last recruit" command, as some have already suggested.
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charlieg
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Re: More elaborate recalling solution

Post by charlieg »

jmosher wrote:The show-stopping problem of all proposals so far has been the inability to specify which hexes your troops will appear on.
Stop! No, that's not an issue; units appear in the order in which you select them (ie as you click on them). Think of it as a stack.
jmosher wrote:Here's an idea that would involve a lot of work but would get around the problem:

Recalling would bring up the menu of troops as usual, but also a schematic of the castle with all free hexes numbered. You would then queue troops, entering a hex number next to each unit you want to place. Dynamically updating pulldowns beside each unit might be best, so that you don't get confused and asign two units to hex #5. If you thought better of an assignment, you would just set the unit back from "5" to "None." When you hit "Done," all units would be placed at once.
A lot of work... for who!? The developers? The players? I'm sorry, but that is unacceptably complex. Given that Wesnoth is oriented around simplicity enabling fluid gameplay, this just is just an awful suggestion.

jmosher wrote:Also, how about sorting? I can imagine the value of sorting by movement, movement type, alignment, level, number of XP to next level, hit points, and melee or ranged weapon type.
Sorting may well be a useful option. Or, for the recalling screen, perhaps reducing the display size of each unit to accomodate more units on the screen.
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Eponymous-Archon
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Post by Eponymous-Archon »

Surely the most efficient way of recruiting/recalling would be drag-and-drop onto the castle hexes from a dialog box that showed both recall-able and recruitable units all together.
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Ave
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Post by Ave »

I don't really care in which hex will my summoned ally appear. I've used that feature only on one case. You can still summon your allies one by one. Mass summoning is just an option!
Mass summoning is for initial summoning when there is no enemy nearby.

jmosher
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Re: More elaborate recalling solution

Post by jmosher »

charlieg wrote:
jmosher wrote:The show-stopping problem of all proposals so far has been the inability to specify which hexes your troops will appear on.
Stop! No, that's not an issue; units appear in the order in which you select them (ie as you click on them). Think of it as a stack.
I'm just not seeing it. Say you have six or ten hexes to fill. Are you going to remember the order of the stack you made? There doesn't seem to be enough feedback.

Ave, the reason many of precisely place our troops all the time is that we are placing them with particular goals in mind. Maybe you want to make sure your scout is a close as possible to a key village, making the difference between capturing it in two turns instead of three. Maybe you want to place your fighters in front and your archers behind. Plus, what about a scenario like A Hasty Alliance, where you are thrown immediately into combat?

Eponymous-Archon's idea of a palette of both recruitable and recallable units sounds very promising though, in terms of both efficiency and clear feedback as you add units. "Recruit and Recall" would become a mode rather than an entirely separate window.
Joshua

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turin
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Post by turin »

i like whose ever idea it was to have recruitable units on the left, recallable units on the right, and the castle in the middle. you drag'n'drop units from the two lists to the castle, and when you are done, you click OK. if you do not like drag and drop, maybe it remembers what you clicked on last and puts that unit in the castle tile you click on.
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charlieg
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Re: More elaborate recalling solution

Post by charlieg »

jmosher wrote:I'm just not seeing it. Say you have six or ten hexes to fill. Are you going to remember the order of the stack you made? There doesn't seem to be enough feedback.
I mean, as you select them, a 'transparent' marker is put there which become real units when you select 'ok'.
jmosher wrote:Eponymous-Archon's idea of a palette of both recruitable and recallable units sounds very promising though, in terms of both efficiency and clear feedback as you add units. "Recruit and Recall" would become a mode rather than an entirely separate window.
I'm inclined to agree.
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Icekiss
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Post by Icekiss »

My vote goes to the idea recall list, castle in the middle, recruit list (I would put the recall list to the left, though)
I can even think of a good way to use your keyboard to select for those of us that don't like the mouse:
Underlay every castle hex with a number (go on with letters, if the castle is too big)
left/right changes from recall list to recruit list and back, up/down moves the selection bar. Hit the number/letter of the castle hex where you want your unit to place the selected unit there.

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turin
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Post by turin »

Great idea. Finally, an acceptable solution for those who want this and those who do not.

Would the status bar on the right still be displayed while this was up? it might be better to have it go away, or it could show the traits of the unit you were selecting.
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