A new IDEA for scouting units

[telly]

You could give this ability to thieves? Thieves 'stealing' villages kind of make sense. They're one of the less strong level 1 units and it would make up for some of the perceived weaknesses of the Knalgan alliance.

[turin]

it would really not be useful for theives. you would have to have a LOT of movement for it to work, because you need to have somewhere to go after you flag the village.
also, thieves are not weak. their backstab is powerful, they have a good melee (3-3, i think?), and they are cheap, at only 12 gold. they are chaotic, which can give an advantage in cave, which is where Knalgan Alliance should be best, right?

[telly]

Nah thieves are weak. They do low damage and don't have enough hp to often survive even one round in fights despite their low defence %. The higher levels are better of course. I still find them quite fun to play around with even so but it'd be nice if they were a little more useful.

Having a scout unit with 9 movement that could tag multiple villages would be pretty overpowered I think, they'd totally dominate any map with heavy concentrations of villages.

[miyo]

I don't like unit being able to tag multiple villages.

- Miyo

[Dave]

IMO a good advantage of Outriders that previously made them very worthwhile was that they could defend in villages with 60% defense, unlike Scouts who only got 40% defense.

However someone has seen fit to change this in recent versions. I'm kinda torn -- it makes some sense that they should only have 40% defense, but 60% defense does make them alot more useful.

Also, perhaps an alternative skill they could get would be to let them get a village's income on the turn they capture it. Normally when you capture a village, a turn of income is lost for that village (i.e. you don't get the income, and the side you're capturing the village from doesn't get the income either).

Maybe that'd be too subtle though...

David

[lynx]

I like the scouts very much, as they're fast and can fight and be beaten quite a bit. Imho the flagging idea is too powerful, as they can move fast on almost all terrain.

[Boucman]

I use scout in two ways

1) early/fast flagging

their easy movement and high speed enables them to quickly cover most of the map and flag villages

2) skirmishing/finishing/emergency help

again, their high speed enables them to quickly reach far away places and be used to help the battle where it is really needed.


when I compare the E-scout and the E-outrider, the outrider has a little more HP and more damage. it has only one extra movement point. If the Outrider needs to be boosted, it would be more "in character" to increase the speed to allow it to go even faster, thus increasing it's usefullness as a scout. the current boost in combat oriented stats is good but it's only one of the two aspect of the scout....

however I am not really convinced that the Outrider needs a boost, it's already very good at it's job. The only problem I see is that it's not really better at it than the lvl1 scout... not worth the upgrade.


just my 0.02 <insert here your local currency>

[Eponymous-Archon]

I use scout in two ways

1) early/fast flagging

their easy movement and high speed enables them to quickly cover most of the map and flag villages

2) skirmishing/finishing/emergency help

I would add that they are sometimes good at drawing off enemy units from an attack on your main party. A few of them, especially if they hold a village, can do fairly well against other horse-riding units.

[cedric]

it has only one extra movement point.

One extra movement point is already quite a great improvement. Think of the number of extra hexes it represents. When one of your units has the quick ability, you notice it immediately.

--
Cedric

[Insinuator]

However someone has seen fit to change this in recent versions. I'm kinda torn -- it makes some sense that they should only have 40% defense, but 60% defense does make them alot more useful.

Perhaps then it could be changed to 50%.

[Boucman]

it has only one extra movement point.

One extra movement point is already quite a great improvement. Think of the number of extra hexes it represents. When one of your units has the quick ability, you notice it immediately.

--
Cedric

agreed, I was meerly pointing out that the upgrade change the scout into a better "fast fighter" rather than a better "scouting unit"

an interesting possibility would be to add the ability that let the unit move after a fight to the outrider (skirmishing ?) that would make it a much better "hit and run" unit, and worth leveling.

[Christophe33]

an interesting possibility would be to add the ability that let the unit move after a fight to the outrider (skirmishing ?) that would make it a much better "hit and run" unit, and worth leveling.

That's a good idea too even though I'm sure some people would oppose to that. Maybe it should be limited to range attack only and cost something like 3 mvt. Maybe a better eye-sight (seeing one or 2 hex further away than trhey can move) would bee usefull too...at least with fog of war.

[Dave]

A possible improvement would be allowing them to do attack-move (but not move-attack-move). I think this would make them more powerful, without being overwhelming.

David

[Boucman]

though I agree that this new ability wouldn't be as powerfull as skirmishing and thus more balanced if given to the Outrider, I think it would be a little redundent with skirmishing.

[miyo]

Or you can give ambush to Outrider, this lets them escape the enemy and "hide" in forest for resting.

- Miyo