Actually kind of good idea for Dwarf Scout
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no because they are weak on grassland and forest, so they would be underpowered on those tiles.toms wrote:Yes, because they are stronger than the other units.purki wrote:outlaws as a own race are great, with the LVL 3 outlaw pack they are strong enough
the dwarfes will recruit then
fighter (advance to runemaster)
thunderer
guardsman
runner
and gryphons
but is that enough for a race?
"There are two kind of campaign strategies : the good and the bad ones. The good ones almost always fail because of unforeseen consequences that make the bad ones succeed." -- Napoleon
You forgot the Ulfserker.
That's 6 units. Probably not enough. And I don't really think adding the runner is a good idea... I would advise NOT trying to make an all-dwarf faction. Although I too want to separate the outlaws from the dwarves, I don't think creating a mono-racial faction is an acceptable tradeoff.
That's 6 units. Probably not enough. And I don't really think adding the runner is a good idea... I would advise NOT trying to make an all-dwarf faction. Although I too want to separate the outlaws from the dwarves, I don't think creating a mono-racial faction is an acceptable tradeoff.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
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And I hate stupid people.
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wayfarer
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Why not (lets exclude the runner) they are stolid,hardheaded and proud and this not always in a good way.
They are dwarves they don't need allies (even if would be in deep water).
I think it would fit their character.
They are dwarves they don't need allies (even if would be in deep water).
I think it would fit their character.
This girl, this boy, They were part of the land. What happens to the places we used to tend?
She's a hard one to trust, And he's a roving ghost. Will you come back, will you come back, Or leave me alone?
-Ghost Fields
She's a hard one to trust, And he's a roving ghost. Will you come back, will you come back, Or leave me alone?
-Ghost Fields
It might fit their character (not sure I agree), but it wouldn't be balanced.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
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wayfarer
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Well I quess this is personal taste I don't know how their character is supposed to be.
But than this is just a matter of balance which could be discussed (This would probably means a twenty pages long thread with less than zero results) but somehow this could be solved.
But than this is just a matter of balance which could be discussed (This would probably means a twenty pages long thread with less than zero results) but somehow this could be solved.
This girl, this boy, They were part of the land. What happens to the places we used to tend?
She's a hard one to trust, And he's a roving ghost. Will you come back, will you come back, Or leave me alone?
-Ghost Fields
She's a hard one to trust, And he's a roving ghost. Will you come back, will you come back, Or leave me alone?
-Ghost Fields
I'm not sure if the runner would be the most useful thing to do, as we alredy have gryphons.
What might be useful, though, is another ranged unit. Maybe an axe-thower.
What might be useful, though, is another ranged unit. Maybe an axe-thower.
"There are two kind of campaign strategies : the good and the bad ones. The good ones almost always fail because of unforeseen consequences that make the bad ones succeed." -- Napoleon
I don't like most of your graphics, but these dwarves are great. They should be added, with something like 5-4 melee.
A melee attack could also be added.
Another problem with dwarves is their lack of abilities.
Code: Select all
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[/attack]Another problem with dwarves is their lack of abilities.
"There are two kind of campaign strategies : the good and the bad ones. The good ones almost always fail because of unforeseen consequences that make the bad ones succeed." -- Napoleon
I wonder if the Outlaws could be replaced to something more akin to the diversification of the Loyalists made by turin (Empire and Clannate).
After searching about kobolds, my mind sorrounded this extract from Wiki like a river sorrounds a rock:
And then it hit me: what if there could be dark-skinned, dwarf-sized, humanoid creatures. You could even make a comparison with pygmies, and they would be good in terrains Dwarves are not, such as forests and grass.
With this, we could have a supporting side to the Dwarves, which would not overlap with the strong defenses of the Dwarves in mountains and hills.
So, what do you think, anyone up for the challenge?.
After searching about kobolds, my mind sorrounded this extract from Wiki like a river sorrounds a rock:
In tandem with the definitin of the kobold being an evil spirit from the underground, my mind related it with the color black.As far as small gods go, a Kobold is one of the more quaintly created. A kobold is usually the remains of a Teuton/Germanic tribal good-luck-god. These gods were made by raising an infant in an underground hut for five years, never letting it see the sun. Then, on its fifth birthday, it would be dragged up at night, and before the entire tribe be pierced by two blades -- one of bronze, the other of steel. The body would then by held over the flames until dry and brown; the end result would be a small dry fetish which would be carried around and worshipped. When the creature and container were finally destroyed and forgotten, the remains of the god would become a Kobold or a Brownie. They are usually bitter and malicious, a product of their creation and abandonment.
And then it hit me: what if there could be dark-skinned, dwarf-sized, humanoid creatures. You could even make a comparison with pygmies, and they would be good in terrains Dwarves are not, such as forests and grass.
With this, we could have a supporting side to the Dwarves, which would not overlap with the strong defenses of the Dwarves in mountains and hills.
So, what do you think, anyone up for the challenge?.
Cuyo Quiz,where madness meets me
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
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Duke Guillermo
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Yes!!!
I've always hated (as have others) the idea of outlaws being allied to dwarves, but never posted because I never had an alternative. Kobolds are a great alternative.
Question though, do you think that Warcraft 3 style Kobolds or the traditional German folklore Kobolds would work better? Personally, even though I am not one for the use of others' ideas, I think that Kobolds similar in appearance to those in Warcraft 3 would work better because no one knows for sure what Kobolds from German mythology look like.
Either way I would be willing to do art for this as I feel very strongly about it.
Some units I'm thinking of are:
Kobold Pathmarker - a fast unit that could have an ability that is currently being discussed, that of increasing the movement of others in a particular terrain. This Kobold could make other dwarves travel faster through forest. It would also carry a staff, and it would take much blade, pierce, and impact damage and smaller amounts of cold, fire, damage.
Kobold Disappearer - a better name is desired, this unit would have the ability "Blink". This ability would cause the unit, if it is currently standing next to an enemy unit and has full MPs left, to move directly behind the movement for all MPs. It would still be able to attack and it would have a backstabbing ranged attack called thorns. Its melee attack would be weak. It would take additional damage from blade, fire and impact, but less from cold and pierce.
Kobold Kamikaze - I don't desire a flame war, I know that kamikaze isn't the right term for a suicide attack, but I couldn't resist the alliteration. This unit would cost a bit less, probably in the neighborhood of 14 gold, and would have a huge fire attack with charge that, when used, would set off an event that kills the unit. This attack would never be used in defence where the unit would opt for a small spear. The unit would be comically drawn with a huge pot of burning pitch and the Wesnoth equivalent of lighter fluid attached to his belt which, on the melee attack, he would douse himself in and light himself on fire. Fire damage would literally do absolutely nothing to the unit, same as blade. Cold and impact damage would do more.
I apologize for the long post, but whatdya think? Should I pursue the creation of kobolds? What type? Are these units good?
I've always hated (as have others) the idea of outlaws being allied to dwarves, but never posted because I never had an alternative. Kobolds are a great alternative.
Question though, do you think that Warcraft 3 style Kobolds or the traditional German folklore Kobolds would work better? Personally, even though I am not one for the use of others' ideas, I think that Kobolds similar in appearance to those in Warcraft 3 would work better because no one knows for sure what Kobolds from German mythology look like.
Either way I would be willing to do art for this as I feel very strongly about it.
Some units I'm thinking of are:
Kobold Pathmarker - a fast unit that could have an ability that is currently being discussed, that of increasing the movement of others in a particular terrain. This Kobold could make other dwarves travel faster through forest. It would also carry a staff, and it would take much blade, pierce, and impact damage and smaller amounts of cold, fire, damage.
Kobold Disappearer - a better name is desired, this unit would have the ability "Blink". This ability would cause the unit, if it is currently standing next to an enemy unit and has full MPs left, to move directly behind the movement for all MPs. It would still be able to attack and it would have a backstabbing ranged attack called thorns. Its melee attack would be weak. It would take additional damage from blade, fire and impact, but less from cold and pierce.
Kobold Kamikaze - I don't desire a flame war, I know that kamikaze isn't the right term for a suicide attack, but I couldn't resist the alliteration. This unit would cost a bit less, probably in the neighborhood of 14 gold, and would have a huge fire attack with charge that, when used, would set off an event that kills the unit. This attack would never be used in defence where the unit would opt for a small spear. The unit would be comically drawn with a huge pot of burning pitch and the Wesnoth equivalent of lighter fluid attached to his belt which, on the melee attack, he would douse himself in and light himself on fire. Fire damage would literally do absolutely nothing to the unit, same as blade. Cold and impact damage would do more.
I apologize for the long post, but whatdya think? Should I pursue the creation of kobolds? What type? Are these units good?
In summation, you're wrong.
Well, as i said, small dark-skinned humanoids, as being some sort of cousins of Dwarves could be one option, to keep relatively close to the division of Empire and Clannate made by turin.Question though, do you think that Warcraft 3 style Kobolds or the traditional German folklore Kobolds would work better?
Rat-like kobolds are also another, and also more fantasy accepted option, but there are also many rat factions sprouting/sprouted, and a more germanic view/take could make this an original flip in Wesnoth. Still, i would call the ratkin options the "safe option" of the two.
Err... well, to explain my delusions...because no one knows for sure what Kobolds from German mythology look like.
Wikipedia;kobold wrote:The body would then by held over the flames until dry and brown
I think these were the influences which made me think of small, dark-skinned men. Maybe an old tribe of exiles which found their way back to their dwarven cousins when the wars began.Wikipedia;Hinzelmann wrote:Hinzelmann was said often to take the form of an child in red velvet, if he had to take any form whatsoever, but his true form (as he showed to a maid once, who instantly passed out) was that of a small child, around four years of age, stabbed and slashed with two swords.
In any case, i would prefer to mantain their roles close of those of the Outlaws (scout, elusive, archer), after that, changes can be made for a better compensation/sinergy with the Dwarven units.
Cuyo Quiz,where madness meets me
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
This is exactly what happened the last time we tried to fix the dwarvish faction.
The gameplay need for the knalgans is there - a scout, an elusive, and a traditional archer. There is a place for a racially pure Dwarf faction, and if it lacks those unit roles then it could be balanced for it. However, the knalgans are balanced to have a low-end scout, an elusivefoot, and a traditional archer. Dwarvish units that fill these roles are hard to contrive, so they need a multiracial faction - a good thing regardless.
At that point, you have to come up with a group to tack onto knalgans, and brown-skinned pygmies, kobolds, and scruffy humans all have about the same level of "makes sense", i.e. none. The outlaws fit the need, are balanced, and have a backstory. Inertia prevails.
The gameplay need for the knalgans is there - a scout, an elusive, and a traditional archer. There is a place for a racially pure Dwarf faction, and if it lacks those unit roles then it could be balanced for it. However, the knalgans are balanced to have a low-end scout, an elusivefoot, and a traditional archer. Dwarvish units that fill these roles are hard to contrive, so they need a multiracial faction - a good thing regardless.
At that point, you have to come up with a group to tack onto knalgans, and brown-skinned pygmies, kobolds, and scruffy humans all have about the same level of "makes sense", i.e. none. The outlaws fit the need, are balanced, and have a backstory. Inertia prevails.
Hope springs eternal.
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