Idea: Dwarven Ranged Unit

[Seleukus]

Looking at other posts, I've seen that many people complain about the lack of variety of Dwarven ranged units. This complain is typically countered by the answer that Dwarves don't seem like the type of people who would use bows.
Since Dwarves seem like a more 'mechanical' type of faction, I propose that they simply use crossbows instead. These units would replace the Dwarven Thunderer line.

Units and stats:

Level 1 unit:
Dwarvish Crossbowmen:
Cost: 15?
Movement: 4
HP: 35
Weapons:
Crossbow (Pierce, 9-2)
Dagger (Blade, 4-2)

They would branch out into two paths: one using powerful arbalests, the other using rapidly-firing repeating crossbows (cho ku nus.)

Note: If you do not know what these are, I suggest you look at the wikipedia articles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbalest
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/repeating_crossbow

Dwarven Arbalester: (Level 2)
Moves: 4
HP: 40
Weapons:
Arbalest (Pierce, 28-1)
Dagger (Blade, 5-3)

Dwarven Heavy Arbalester: (Level 3)
Moves: 4
HP: 50
Weapons:
Heavy Arbalest: (Pierce, 40-1)
Sword (Blade, 9-3)

Dwarven Repeating Crossbowman: (Level 2)
Moves: 4
HP: 37
Weapons:
Repeating Crossbow (Pierce, 2-12, poison.)
Dagger: (Blade, 6-3)

Dwarven Heavy Repeating Crossbowman: (Level 3)
Moves: 4
HP: 45
Weapons:
Repeating Crossbow: (Pierce, 2-13, poison.)
Dagger: (Blade, 7-3.)

What do you think about this idea?

[turin]

How the heck would REPLACING the thunderers with crossbowmen increase variety?

I guess the idea is there are more branching possibilities for crossbowmen than thunderstick-users... I would disagree with that. There have been plans in the past to make a branch of the thunderer line, and I still want to do that, I just don't have graphics.

So, I can definitely understand increasing variety; I'm a strong supporter of it, in fact. But I fail to see how this change would do that.

[scott]

He came up with two lines where right now there is just one, and each line uses a different weapon.

He didn't know of any past proposals. Why is it dwarves accumulate more half-baked proposals than anyone else? Holy cow think of the strife over:
1. getting rid of outlaws
2. the thunder/flame/stormguards
3. pistolier cowboy dwarves
4. Magic-using dwarves
5. scouts: ram rider, helicopter bomber, axe runners, and magic carpet riders!!!
6. Don't forget the cross-dressers (elf, mer, undead) and the Darawrf

Anyway, I personally think crossbows + dwarves doesn't mesh well. Wesnoth humans really are the crossbow experts. It's not bad logic, it's just me not used to it.

Your jump to crossbows indicates that the thunderstick is seen as something that can't have variety. There's plenty of room to play with the thunderstick, but the dwarves are just immovable, resisting all attempts to change the faction!
Besides just getting a stronger pierce attack, you can switch damage types, go to 2 attacks, or give the attack marksman. If you branch all those you have plenty of options.

For example:

Code: Select all

Thunderer > Thunderguard > Dragonguard (strong pierce)
                         > Flameguard  (strong flame)
                         > mixed guard (2 attacks: med-strong pierce and med-strong flame)
Thunderer > double shot > strong double shot (less increase than thunderguard line)
          > marksman > stronger marksman (less increase than thunderguard line)

I'm not proposing them, instead I'm just showing there's a lot of room to play with what we have now.

[Tux2B]

I don't think dwarves need more ranged attack. It would overpower them again.

[dtw]

I'm glad scott covered several of "my" past ideas there - I still intend to create fire thrower and tar thrower units one day....wehn ever that may be...

[Neoriceisgood]

I guess the idea is there are more branching possibilities for crossbowmen than thunderstick-users... I would disagree with that. There have been plans in the past to make a branch of the thunderer line, and I still want to do that, I just don't have graphics.

You lie, I had made a fully animated secondary branch for thunderers back in the days.

[scott]

I included pretty much everybody's past ideas. I don't claim ownership.

As far as any of the lines goes you should try to show which one best fits a gameplay need. If you give them a L2 fire unit for example, it makes it a very powerful undead killer. I think doubleshot might be the best option since it gives players a more traditional ranged unit option. The problem with that is lowering damage, unless it keeps its original attack + doubleshot (which doesn't make much sense). I guess lowering the damage of the doubleshot won't violate RIPLIB since there is the thunderguard.

[Tippsey]

True but now the anti gun flamers are gonna jump this like they jumped the last repeating thunderer...or the axe throwers will show up hmmm.

[Neoriceisgood]

I just give it two thundersticks, problem solved.

[dtw]

I included pretty much everybody's past ideas. I don't claim ownership.

Sorrry, I didn't meant to imply you did, I was trying to imply that while I had espoused similar ideas they could not also be strictly dscribed as mine

[turin]

I just give it two thundersticks, problem solved.

Strangely enough, I agree with you.... but pistols are not thundersticks. They're pistols.

Actually, it's not even necessary to give him two thundersticks. As I proved with my book on antique guns before, early guns had barrels at both ends; you'd shoot, flip it around, and shoot again.

Personally, I think the thunderer unit should branch

Code: Select all

Thunderer -> Flameshooter -> Dragonguard (1 shot, flameshooter like current thunderguard; perhaps gets marksman at 3rd level)
          -> Thunderguard -> Stormguard (2 shots)

[Neoriceisgood]

How about the blue guy with the big shield with a thunderflash on it? He looked pretty neat.

[turin]

How about the blue guy with the big shield with a thunderflash on it? He looked pretty neat.

Was he supposed to be ranged? I couldn't tell.

[wayfarer]

Crossbows wouldn't be that bad idea they would be probalby easier to produce and easier handle than thundersticks and they would work even if it rains. This said from the point of realism but it can be ignored.
Graphics for this would be easy pushing some pixels nothing more.

[fmunoz]

Who said that thudersticks dont work in rain or under the water...
You know dwarves creating all that awfull stuff... Sceptres who shot fireballs, sticks that launh small pellets of metal ...