Simple move feature: switch places

Brainstorm ideas of possible additions to the game. Read this before posting!

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Forum rules
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:
Post Reply
gabba
Inactive Developer
Posts: 129
Joined: January 24th, 2005, 5:08 pm
Location: Quebec

Simple move feature: switch places

Post by gabba »

I would like to be able to make two friendly units switch places by making one move in the hex of the other. (Concretely: select unit, hit M or some other key, click on spot of friendly unit that has enough movement to move in the spot of the first unit: both units move into the spot the other occupied.)

Reason: right now it's a real headache to move your leaders and healers (and weak units which must gain experience) around in a cramped situation: units can move through friendly units, but if you want two units that are adjacent to exchanges places, you have to get one out of the way, move the other, and then move the first one (waste of movement points). If you are on rough terrain, this move may become impossible - except with my wonderful new feature.

What do you think?
scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

I proposed this a long time ago, and the answer I got back then was that it's set up this way on purpose to make you manage your space. You could probably search for it (it was like my second post or so)
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
gabba
Inactive Developer
Posts: 129
Joined: January 24th, 2005, 5:08 pm
Location: Quebec

Post by gabba »

scott wrote:I proposed this a long time ago, and the answer I got back then was that it's set up this way on purpose to make you manage your space. You could probably search for it (it was like my second post or so)
2000 posts ago! That's a long time. Maybe now people can take a second look at this idea :wink: .

I kind of have a doubt about the "it's set up this way on purpose" answer. I haven't seen any turn-based strategy game with that feature, so maybe it was not just seriously considered for Wesnoth. This would be a nice occasion to innovate.
scott
Posts: 5242
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 12:35 am
Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

See for yourself:
http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... ght=#16498

The rejection was lukewarm I guess: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1215

The arguments against were 1. it messed up ZOC blocking, 2. retreating breaks up defensive lines and that was a good gameplay element, and 3. you would have to teach the AI to use it.

Maybe if you can accomplish 3 then you're in.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
gabba
Inactive Developer
Posts: 129
Joined: January 24th, 2005, 5:08 pm
Location: Quebec

Post by gabba »

scott wrote:See for yourself:
http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... ght=#16498

The rejection was lukewarm I guess: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1215

The arguments against were 1. it messed up ZOC blocking, 2. retreating breaks up defensive lines and that was a good gameplay element, and 3. you would have to teach the AI to use it.

Maybe if you can accomplish 3 then you're in.
Hmm, hadn't thought about the AI. The second argument is pretty good too. I can live with the game as it is, anyways, but still the change would be interesting.
js138
Posts: 145
Joined: February 23rd, 2005, 7:45 pm
Location: Cambridge
Contact:

Post by js138 »

I'll just say 'Yuck' now. I can be less lukewarm if you prefer...

Complex and fiddly to implement, I would suspect, and a sop for those who can't manage their front line space adequately.
Doros
Posts: 78
Joined: October 13th, 2004, 4:02 am
Location: USA

Post by Doros »

This feature could be implemented in a way that didn't affect gameplay and didn't need any new AI coding. It could just be a short cut that makes the first unit move out of the way, the second unit move in, and the first unit move back, using the least number of moves possible. Of course, this seems like a waste of time to code, and stability and completion is the main goal right now, not features and such.
darune
Posts: 60
Joined: May 9th, 2005, 10:56 am

Post by darune »

What do you mean by teaching the ai to use it ?
I dont think the ai is able to manage the moving around with units as descriped in the first post anyway. Actually i think it is possible that it would be easier if you where to make the ai do things like this if it could swap units, as it would be a shortcut in the analysis, if you where going to make it anyway.

About the ZOC and retreating.
The units making the swap must both be able to do the movement legally to perform the swap. Both units pay movement costs as usual and loose the rest of movement if they end up next to enemy, and therefore ZOC and retreating issue should not be a problem, no ?

As units can allready move through friendly space, it makes no sense that you cannot swap units from a realistic point of view.

Also im not sure i would like the feature. I guess the game is harder if you have to consider space combined with terrain. On the other hand it can sometimes be a pain to manage this and it takes time to figure out and do the movement, often resulting in a slowdown in the gameplay which can be anoying for other people in a multiplayer game.
Post Reply