Idea about shadow magic

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » March 7th, 2005, 1:56 am

I think shadow magic should replace the undead's cold magic because I believe that every element should have an oposite, so shadow would be the oposite do light. And this way mermaids and nagas wouldnt be so strong against undead magic.
This is the way I think it should be:
All units that are 20% stronger to holy would be -20% weaker to shadow. And undead units would still be -100% weaker to holy, but would be imune to shadow (100% defense).

Post by **Jetrel** » March 7th, 2005, 2:30 am

Not quite. Upon close inspection, you will find that darkness is not the opposite of light, rather it is merely the abscence of it.

REAL darkness would be cast, just like light from a lamp, and would actively chase away light.

This is analogous to comparing protons and electrons, which are not opposites.

Real opposites would be electrons and positrons.

Besides the point, that wasn't quite what I had suggested for shadow damage. Shadow damage would be something that everyone except the dark adept line would be neither weak nor resistant to.

It would just be pervasive.

I do think that the undead should be just as vulnerable to it as others, since necromancers should have the power to dispel their rivals' creations.

The dark adept line would be relatively resistant to it, increasing with level. I don't think the white mage line should have any special resistance or weakness to it - the undead's weakness to holy magic is enough of an advantage already - a level3 mage of light will usually prevail against a level3 lich.

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » March 7th, 2005, 2:56 am

Your ideas are interesting, but I still think that undead like skeletons should be stronger to shadow, because the absense of light should not harm them.

dms · Post by **dms** » March 7th, 2005, 3:01 am

I don't see how every damage type can have an opposite. What's the opposite of blade?

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » March 7th, 2005, 3:16 am

Blade is a phisical attack, but the magic ones are based on elements, and each element has it's oposite.
This is a concept that was created by the naturalistic greek philosofers, the ones the came up with the idea of the five elements, and it's been used in many places during history, even in ciÃƒÂªncific researches during medieval time. Although we now realize the concept it's wrong, it is used in fantasy histories and rpg games.
Oh, and oriental philosofy also created this idea of everything having an oposite.
Myself I believe it's all the same thing, but it's sensed different accordingly to the person who is sensing it. Like cold and heat, they are both molecules movement, but depending on the movements of the molecules of the person's body they are felt differently. So cold and fire is the same thing. Shadow and Light would be also the same thing, light and absense of light. That's why I liked Jetryl's idea.

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » March 7th, 2005, 10:19 am

Monkey wrote:Shadow and Light would be also the same thing, light and absense of light.

Um... but how can the abscense of light hurt anything?

Post by **turin** » March 7th, 2005, 1:07 pm

IIRC, the purpose of shadow damage is to make it so nagas are not so resistant to undead magic. Now, does it have any other purposes? I don't think that purpose alone is enough to get it in-game.

Elvish Pillager wrote:
Monkey wrote:Shadow and Light would be also the same thing, light and absense of light.
Um... but how can the abscense of light hurt anything?

Well, it disrupts photosynthesis, so perhaps its extraordinarily damaging to woses... >)

scott · Post by **scott** » March 7th, 2005, 1:50 pm

Shadow magic should be thought of as a blight on the soul rather than a physical type of damage. It solves the problem of not being the opposite of light (except metaphorically) and explains why undead could be resistant while naga and other normal living beings are not. As previously suggested, if drain attacks were shadow magic, then it would be a perfect fit.

I already broke my promise today to only issue Old Flame War Revival Alerts!

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » March 7th, 2005, 3:21 pm

Exactly, it's like a human sould is made of light, so if you remove the light from it he will die. If you give it light it will heal. And since undead doesn't have souls shadow wouldn't harm them.
And necromancers aren't imune to shadow, because they are still humans and have a soul, in reply for Jetryl's comment:

I do think that the undead should be just as vulnerable to it as others, since necromancers should have the power to dispel their rivals' creations.

Necromancy is bringing corpses to life, it has nothing to do with shadow magic. So the necromancer may be able to dispell a creation (theorically just as he is able to summon one), but he is not able to destroy it with darkness magic.

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » March 15th, 2005, 11:18 pm

and more: Drain will not work on udead. It's unreal a bat sucking blood of a wraith for example.

Post by **turin** » March 15th, 2005, 11:20 pm

Monkey wrote:and more: Drain will not work on udead. It's unreal a bat sucking blood of a wraith for example.

It already doesn't....

romnajin · Post by **romnajin** » March 16th, 2005, 12:21 am

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » March 16th, 2005, 12:26 am

I was playing TDH now and I'm tought it did, are you sure?

romnajin · Post by **romnajin** » March 16th, 2005, 12:27 am

Undead are immune to poison, drain, plus their good resistances.

martenzo · Post by **martenzo** » March 16th, 2005, 3:40 am

Well... I think that instead of 'Shadow' damage type it should be 'Unholy' damage type