[mainline] list of new faction names for BfW era

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Can-ned_Food
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[mainline] list of new faction names for BfW era

Post by Can-ned_Food » February 23rd, 2018, 9:52 am

Point was raised, during the recent discussions for the Dunefolk name, that the other faction names needed attention. Here are a bunch of very preliminary ones with at least three per each.

Some of them are likely to need attention from those of you who are much more aquainted with the mainline campaigns than I am.
This is simply a stab at kickstarting it — if anyone is interested.
  • name now
    • new name per theme
      • new name for faction proper
        • new name by relation to Wesnoth
  • Loyalists
    • lawful
      • Wesnoth
        • loyalists
  • Rebels
    • forest
      • "Restoration of the Wesnothian Throne"
        • rebels
  • Northerners
    • chaotic
      • "Clannic Horde"
      • "Horde of Clans"
        • northerners
  • Undead
    • necromagic
      • Lichmasters
        • dark arts
        • forbidden arts
        • necrotists
  • Knalgan Alliance
    • rugged
      • "Knalgan Alliance"
        • strangers
  • Drakes
    • reptilian
      • "Herka'n Legion"
        (above is just some silly word i invented with no bearing on any previously extant lore)
        • drakes
        • drakians

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Celtic_Minstrel
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Re: [mainline] list of new faction names for BfW era

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » February 27th, 2018, 1:37 am

I don't really think any of the existing factions need renaming. I suppose some of them could be named a little better (drakes come to mind, maybe undead or even loyalists), but I don't think there's any big problem with the existing names, so why bother?
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Re: [mainline] list of new faction names for BfW era

Post by Pentarctagon » February 27th, 2018, 1:46 am

If I had to pick any, it'd probably be the Loyalists and Rebels, since those names are rather campaign specific and I'd say it makes more sense to have them called that for those scenarios rather than globally. No idea how much of an appetite there is for actually changing the name of factions that have been around since the beginning though.
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Re: [mainline] list of new faction names for BfW era

Post by Sapient » February 27th, 2018, 3:02 am

Considering HttT's status as flagship campaign, and all the other campaigns which are firmly fixed in its orbit, I don't see any problem with Rebels and Loyalists being named as such. The less flavorful names are the ones that I would change, if any... e.g. Drakes + Undead.
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Re: [mainline] list of new faction names for BfW era

Post by Eagle_11 » February 27th, 2018, 1:28 pm

Lets not rename things on the sole reason that we can.

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Re: [mainline] list of new faction names for BfW era

Post by name » February 27th, 2018, 7:47 pm

Renaming "Rebels" to "Sylvans" would be a good change.

They were never rebels, even in HttT, because the elves and woses were never a part of the kingdom of wesnoth in the first place and neither were all mages and mermish under that government. The rebel force included elves, but also humans of both loyalist and outlaw types, dwarves, mermish, gryphons, etc. The elves and their close allies are nothing like rebels in any other campaign they appear in either.

It is downright confusing in multiplayer; new players might expect choosing a faction with a name like rebels would deliver a human outlaw faction, but never forest dwelling elves, tree and fish warriors plus a magician. None of those things makes sense in the context of a rebellion, but they do fit a deep secluded forest wilderness (in a fantasy setting), as the name "Sylvan" would imply.

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Eagle_11
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Re: [mainline] list of new faction names for BfW era

Post by Eagle_11 » February 27th, 2018, 9:27 pm

well, i used 'Sylvan Rebels' as their faction name in my mod.

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Re: [mainline] list of new faction names for BfW era

Post by shadowm » February 27th, 2018, 9:35 pm

HttT’s status as the “flagship” campaign has considerably decayed over time for a multitude of reasons. The only hard connection that the game has to it anymore is the recycling of characters for the Tutorial, and the MP faction’s name, which really doesn’t seem terribly attractive or indicative of anything (especially for those who play MP without touching single-player beyond the tutorial).
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Re: [mainline] list of new faction names for BfW era

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » February 28th, 2018, 2:11 am

Cold Steel wrote:
February 27th, 2018, 7:47 pm
They were never rebels, even in HttT, because the elves and woses were never a part of the kingdom of wesnoth in the first place and neither were all mages and mermish under that government. The rebel force included elves, but also humans of both loyalist and outlaw types, dwarves, mermish, gryphons, etc. The elves and their close allies are nothing like rebels in any other campaign they appear in either.
I think the fact that they are led by Delfador and Konrad (and, later, Li'sar) should be sufficient to consider them rebels.

I can see your point about "rebels" for elves being a little unusual, but unusual isn't always a bad thing either.
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Re: [mainline] list of new faction names for BfW era

Post by ForestDragon » February 28th, 2018, 7:30 am

I personally don't think faction names should be bound to mainline lore. Multiplayer isn't really about lore anyway, and the faction names should not sacrifice descriptive-ness for the same of being "lore-friendly". I certainly agree with renaming Rebels to Sylvan, but Loyalists seem fine to me, as the term is broad enough to be easily applied even outside mainline lore, while "Rebels" only works when talking about HttT. Drakes could have something fancy as a new name, like "Reptillian Alliance","Reptillian Conclave" or what Can-ned_Food suggested. Northerners could also use a better name, but I think renaming Rebels/Drakes is more important.
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Re: [mainline] list of new faction names for BfW era

Post by Xalzar » February 28th, 2018, 9:52 am

ForestDragon wrote:
February 28th, 2018, 7:30 am
Northerners could also use a better name
Northern Clans?

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Re: [mainline] list of new faction names for BfW era

Post by ForestDragon » February 28th, 2018, 9:56 am

Xalzar wrote:
February 28th, 2018, 9:52 am
Northern Clans?
Don't know. Maybe "Orcish Horde"?
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Re: [mainline] list of new faction names for BfW era

Post by name » February 28th, 2018, 5:42 pm

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
February 28th, 2018, 2:11 am
I think the fact that they are led by Delfador and Konrad (and, later, Li'sar) should be sufficient to consider them rebels.
But so too were the dwarves and mermish plus both outlaw and lawful humans alike. But they are not called rebels or included in the rebel faction.

Delfador and konrad were originally guests of the wood elves, who after being invaded by wesnoth's orcish mercenaries, gave direct military aid in their campaign against the throne. That could be considered supporting an ally against a common enemy rather than becoming subservient to said ally. After all, once the rebellion succeeded, the wood elves in the south did not become part of wesnoth; their land of aethenwood was not annexed and neither is there evidence they resettled within wesnoth.

Then you have the majority of elven factions that did not get involved very directly in the wesnoth civil war.

Plus all other campaigns that involve elves, including those where elves are the main protagonists alone, show them battling just about everything except the crown of wesnoth.
Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
February 28th, 2018, 2:11 am
I can see your point about "rebels" for elves being a little unusual, but unusual isn't always a bad thing either.
I agree, but there is flavorful unusual and confusing unusual. This is the one faction name that falls mostly into the latter category.

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Re: [mainline] list of new faction names for BfW era

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » March 1st, 2018, 2:54 am

ForestDragon wrote:
February 28th, 2018, 7:30 am
I certainly agree with renaming Rebels to Sylvan,
I guess I could support this; barring the mage and merman, it does fit quite well.
ForestDragon wrote:
February 28th, 2018, 7:30 am
Drakes could have something fancy as a new name, like "Reptillian Alliance","Reptillian Conclave" or what Can-ned_Food suggested. Northerners could also use a better name, but I think renaming Rebels/Drakes is more important.
I find your suggestions quite boring to be honest, and would in general not support anything with the word "reptilian" in it. Can-ned_Food's suggestion doesn't work either, because the drakes' language doesn't have an H sound. I also question the placement of a glottal stop immediately followed by /n/, though phonotactics for the language haven't really been defined so I can't categorically say it wouldn't happen. The only extant occurrences of a glottal stop in the Markov Chain input are between vowels and between a vowel and an L; allowing it between a vowel and an N isn't that much of a stretch, I guess. (Mind you, the context-free grammar for the drake names probably ends up placing apostrophes a lot more liberally... perhaps too much so, in fact. Unfortunately it's probably too late to fix that though... :/ )
ForestDragon wrote:
February 28th, 2018, 9:56 am
Xalzar wrote:
February 28th, 2018, 9:52 am
Northern Clans?
Don't know. Maybe "Orcish Horde"?
I'd honestly prefer "Northerners" to "Orcish Horde".
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Re: [mainline] list of new faction names for BfW era

Post by name » March 1st, 2018, 5:40 am

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
March 1st, 2018, 2:54 am
ForestDragon wrote:
February 28th, 2018, 7:30 am
I certainly agree with renaming Rebels to Sylvan,
I guess I could support this; barring the mage and merman, it does fit quite well.
In campaigns, it is not uncommon to encounter hermit mages in the wilderness. They seek solitude to better devote themselves to their work or to avoid it being used poorly by the foolish or ambitious.

As for mermish, water spirits living in sacred pools and waterways in the wilderness are a common theme in european mythologies. It would fit even better if instead of the merman hunter they had the mermaid initiate. Possibly better balanced too.

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