Falcon -> Elder Falcon poll thread

[Pentarctagon]

Unless there are any objections, this will be the poll to decide the name of the Falcon -> Elder Falcon line as well. The poll will last two days, and everyone will get a single choice. If more discussion needs to happen before they are potentially renamed, however, then they will have to wait and won't be changed for 1.14.

[Airatgaljamov]

I am confused about why should we change the nice hunting falcons into some out-of-nowhere Rocs, who have no background, no hints in mainline and no sprites? Their addition is unnecessary. And if there will be this drastic change, then the whole concept of Dunefolk should be revised from the ground up.

[Pentarctagon]

I am confused about why should we change the nice hunting falcons into some out-of-nowhere Rocs, who have no background, no hints in mainline and no sprites? Their addition is unnecessary. And if there will be this drastic change, then the whole concept of Dunefolk should be revised from the ground up.

It was brought up as a possibility over in the lore thread, and Celtic_Minstrel asked about it more specifically here.

[Vyncyn]

I don't believe the names should be changed. Falcon is a very descriptive and English name for this unit. The other dunefolk names have been changed because they don't fit into wesnoth and are hard to understand.
However if the falcon is replaced (sprite and stats) he should have a new name. But this should happen along the lines of discussing faction balance and unit changes (like the possibility of having a jinn, elephants, magic carpet and other units that have been mentioned in the first khalifate thread)

[Deciton_Reven]

I'm cool with mythological creatures and them having odd/foreign names as long as the common spelling in english is chosen for the english language, but gonna have to side with the "as long as they look like falcons and are stat'ed as falcons they should probably stay as falcons". For now at least.

[name]

Yeah, it does not really make sense for a level 0 unit with pathetic stats to represent a creature so large it could fly away with large game.

[Celtic_Minstrel]

This is pretty unpopular, huh... oh well.

[Deciton_Reven]

Hey, maybe, as was said in the other threads, they eventually get Elder Falcon -> Roc. Bats used to have only the level 0 and 1 before and are a quite similar comparison point.

Rocs are a good idea, just not as tiny lvl 0 birds, which is the thread's purpose, just naming the small birds, not having them undergo heavy changes.

[Celtic_Minstrel]

It feels a little weird for a falcon to level up to a roc, but I guess it is indeed an option.

[Xalzar]

This is pretty unpopular, huh... oh well.

I have voted for Roc, but...
I think the reason people have voted for keeping the Falcon is that we don't have time now to introduce new units. The faction will be the same unit-wise, only names (and possibly description) will change in 1.14.

So, it doesn't make much sense to change the name to Roc while we still have falcons.
I don't even know why this poll was started. I think right now it generates only confusion.

The work on this faction is only at the beginning, we haven't even touched the most controversial parts.

[name]

Yeah I should clarify I am not against a Roc replacing the Falcon in the unit line up, but it should be a unit that starts at level 1 and advances to levels 2 and 3 and maybe even 4. Because its defining feature is its size.

If a smaller mythical creature was the goal, a Stymphalian bird would be more appropriate.

[Celtic_Minstrel]

Appropriate sure, but that's a Greek myth, not a Middle-Eastern one, so it doesn't fit the flavour as well.

[SigurdFireDragon]

The work on this faction is only at the beginning, we haven't even touched the most controversial parts.

We've made/making changes to faction name, race name, & unit names. What does that leave that's controversial?

[Xalzar]

We've made/making changes to faction name, race name, & unit names. What does that leave that's controversial?

Possible unit modifications/substitutions, change of abilities/specials, rebalancing...
I'm not proposing that we have to scrap everything and redo from zero, but some of these matters apparently need to be discussed more. I don't think all the problems with this faction will be washed away by renaming the units.
As an example, see all the discussion concerning Rocs and Jinns.

As an anticipation, I'd like to see the liminal alignment rediscussed. It's not only my opinion, I feel bound to voice the istances brought to me by some of my colleagues from my own national forum.
But, let's not talk about that right now. There's time.

[Pentarctagon]

We've made/making changes to faction name, race name, & unit names. What does that leave that's controversial?

Possible unit modifications/substitutions, change of abilities/specials, rebalancing...
I'm not proposing that we have to scrap everything and redo from zero, but some of these matters apparently need to be discussed more. I don't think all the problems with this faction will be washed away by renaming the units.
As an example, see all the discussion concerning Rocs and Jinns.

As an anticipation, I'd like to see the liminal alignment rediscussed. It's not only my opinion, I feel bound to voice the istances brought to me by some of my colleagues from my own national forum.
But, let's not talk about that right now. There's time.

There is a difference between controversial and substantial, I would say. I don't believe there have been multiple, long threads of people ranting about the liminal alignment, for example