[mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Postby ChaosRider » December 24th, 2017, 6:17 pm

Vyncyn wrote:This gave me an idea. How about replacing the falcons with harpies? I do like the idea of trained falcons, but harpies would give the faction more of a fantasy touch, female units, and stronger all-terrain units. The falcon line is relatively weak compared to other flying units.


Why harpies? This fraction is living in dune terrain... More suitable would be vulture.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Postby Vyncyn » December 24th, 2017, 6:25 pm

ChaosRider wrote: Why harpies? This fraction is living in dune terrain... More suitable would be vulture.


Harpies are fantasy, if needs be they can be inspired by vultures rather than the typical image.
Also I don't think the faction only lives in the dune. Their Empire can include terrain more suitable to harpies.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Postby Celtic_Minstrel » December 24th, 2017, 8:11 pm

Harpies don't really fit the flavour in my opinion; Khalifate is heavily Arab-flavoured, but harpies are very much Greek. However, if you want them to be more legendary / fantasy-flavoured, why not rename the upgrade to Roc? So basically you'd have a L0 Falcon which upgrades to a L1 Roc. Alternatively, the roc could be a new L2 in the falcon line or something. (Or maybe you could rename the whole unit line somehow.)
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Postby Vyncyn » December 24th, 2017, 11:17 pm

Right now the khalifate are inspired by middle eastern culture, but it doesn't have to remain that way. I mean, the whole name change thing was partly to bring them away from their real life counterpart. Mixing in some elements from other cultures could help giving them a unique identity.

But I like the idea of the roc too. After all, we already have this amazing graphic in a multiplayer addon :P
roc.png
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Postby The_Gnat » December 24th, 2017, 11:42 pm

Now that is an impressive sprite! Certainly not lvl 1 (perhaps even a lvl 3 image)
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Postby Celtic_Minstrel » December 25th, 2017, 4:22 am

I don't really think simply changing names will make the faction less Arab-flavoured. Of course, there's nothing wrong with mixing in elements of other cultures, though.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Postby Cold Steel » December 25th, 2017, 5:48 am

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:Apparently I'm late to the party, but I have a few things I want to say...


Do keep in mind that this thread only concerns a candidate to become the seventh mainline multiplayer faction and not replacing the UMC Khalifate faction (which it is already beginning to diverge from with this name change). So there is no need to be concerned for the purity of the original concept, it is not going to get overwritten but likely live on in the UMC ecosystem separately and indefinitely.

But of all the UMC factions out there that could be developed into the seventh mainline faction, for this one to be duly chosen, it needs to accommodate the quality and consistency of wesnoth a hell of a lot more than wesnoth needs to accommodate it. Otherwise it could very well remain in limbo forever as the "default + extra faction" era.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Postby Celtic_Minstrel » December 25th, 2017, 1:56 pm

I don't see why the "original" Khalifate would live on as an addon if it's literally the exact same faction with different names, though.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Postby Cold Steel » December 25th, 2017, 4:45 pm

Your first post concerned quite a number of things you would keep the same, beyond the name. But the more these changes are made to fit the consistency and flavor of the wesnoth world, the more "Dunefolk" would become a separate faction from UMC "Khalifate", so that the latter would not be made irrelevant and disappear.

Pure unembellished Khalifate would best fit into a no-fantasy-or-magic historical era in the UMC ecosystem, like the "18th Century Warfare Era" but for the medieval period.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Postby Celtic_Minstrel » December 25th, 2017, 5:50 pm

As long as it's using the same sprites (and I don't think there's any reason to change them), I don't see how it could become a truly different faction from any of the changes I mentioned.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Postby The_Gnat » December 26th, 2017, 12:49 am

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:As long as it's using the same sprites (and I don't think there's any reason to change them), I don't see how it could become a truly different faction from any of the changes I mentioned.


I agree with Celtic Minstrel, i like the current sprites and think that it would be a waste to replace them, and so even after the name change we will still have an Arabian-looking faction. But that is not a bad thing. If we rename the faction and then rename the units that will significantly improve this faction and make it feel more like the other wesnoth factions.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Postby Pentarctagon » December 26th, 2017, 3:11 am

Also, it would probably be best to keep this thread focused on the faction/unit renaming. Which isn't to say that the other topics shouldn't be discussed, but just that they should have their own threads - one for unit/faction descriptions and lore, another for unit balancing, etc - so that things aren't lost or forgotten here.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Postby mintleaf » December 26th, 2017, 3:41 pm

Pentarctagon wrote:Also, it would probably be best to keep this thread focused on the faction/unit renaming. Which isn't to say that the other topics shouldn't be discussed, but just that they should have their own threads - one for unit/faction descriptions and lore, another for unit balancing, etc - so that things aren't lost or forgotten here.


Agreed. I always thought it was out of the question here and had been getting tired of arguing it.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Postby skeptical_troll » December 27th, 2017, 1:29 pm

mintleaf wrote:Pentarctagon wrote:
Also, it would probably be best to keep this thread focused on the faction/unit renaming. Which isn't to say that the other topics shouldn't be discussed, but just that they should have their own threads - one for unit/faction descriptions and lore, another for unit balancing, etc - so that things aren't lost or forgotten here.


Agreed. I always thought it was out of the question here and had been getting tired of arguing it.


If it is so, you might want to remove from the OP the part "What Kind of Peoples/Civilization", as it explicitly raises questions about the lore. If it is about the name, both 'Dunefolk' and 'Southerners' are vague enough that they don't imply anything about their background, except a generic connection with the desert.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Postby Pentarctagon » December 27th, 2017, 6:33 pm

skeptical_troll wrote:
mintleaf wrote:Pentarctagon wrote:
Also, it would probably be best to keep this thread focused on the faction/unit renaming. Which isn't to say that the other topics shouldn't be discussed, but just that they should have their own threads - one for unit/faction descriptions and lore, another for unit balancing, etc - so that things aren't lost or forgotten here.


Agreed. I always thought it was out of the question here and had been getting tired of arguing it.


If it is so, you might want to remove from the OP the part "What Kind of Peoples/Civilization", as it explicitly raises questions about the lore. If it is about the name, both 'Dunefolk' and 'Southerners' are vague enough that they don't imply anything about their background, except a generic connection with the desert.


The top of the first post specifically calls out what changes should be discussed in this thread, but I've added some additional clarification to it. The "What Kind of Peoples/Civilization" section is, I think, a valid thing to have, especially for some of the other listed changes that will be discussed(though the whole post will need to be updated once the faction name is decided).
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