[mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

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revolting_peasant
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Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Post by revolting_peasant » December 21st, 2017, 12:17 am

Lordlewis wrote:and same for the giant spider.
Because the spiders in the 'Descent into Darkness' scenario of 'Descent into Darkness' need to put up some badass resistance, that's why ;)

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Xalzar
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Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Post by Xalzar » December 21st, 2017, 10:19 am

zookeeper wrote:

Code: Select all

arcane 20%
blade -20%
cold   60%
fire   0%
impact 30%
pierce 0%
I don't know how, but I accidentally skipped reading the last Zookeeper's post. :doh:
Yes, I think those changes are optimal. :D

Maybe the major balance change is that now Merfolk have no weapon able to exploit a weakness (they have pierce, impact, arcane), but the 0% pierce and the low hp make me think it's not a problem. Oh, and Naga instead are good against the Tentacle (blade damage). :eng:

Also, funny note: Dark Adepts are doomed now. I'm happy about this! :twisted:

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Lordlewis
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Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Post by Lordlewis » December 21st, 2017, 11:09 am

Dark adept where already doomed when they find a Dwarvish berserker, also there is a cool Easter-egg when one attacks the dark adept. Also I think the tentacle may not be the only thing that needs changing...
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Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » December 21st, 2017, 2:03 pm

Lordlewis wrote:there is a cool Easter-egg when one attacks the dark adept.
Not specifically the dark adept - any unit with no melee attack. (Such as the L1 mudcrawler.)
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Vyncyn
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Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Post by Vyncyn » December 21st, 2017, 3:24 pm

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
Lordlewis wrote:there is a cool Easter-egg when one attacks the dark adept.
Not specifically the dark adept - any unit with no melee attack. (Such as the L1 mudcrawler.)
I think t plays when the other unit is very likely to die, so either when there's no melee or if the unit is very low hp.

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zookeeper
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Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Post by zookeeper » December 22nd, 2017, 7:07 pm

revolting_peasant wrote:So have you made a decision? Or should we have a poll?
No need for a poll for things like this, really.
revolting_peasant wrote:Also - Humans have +20% arcane resistance, but, say, Orcs don't; and Wolves don't. Why would the tentacle have a +20% as opposed to 0%?
Yeah, that's true, I forgot how many units/races have 0%. Considering it's very ambiguous what sort of creature the tentacles are actually part of, 0% is what probably makes the most sense.

So currently what I'd be putting in would be:

Code: Select all

arcane  0%
blade -20%
cold   60%
fire    0%
impact 30%
pierce  0%

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Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Post by revolting_peasant » December 22nd, 2017, 11:45 pm

zookeeper: Your latest combination sounds fine to me, so let's forget about the poll.

There was, however, a question regarding whether the HP should change to balance out the resistance changes. Mermen units have no Blade attacks except for Tritons, and in Dead Water, the protagonist units are even more slanted in favor of Impact, Arcane and Pierce. So the expected damage of a Merman attack on a TotD now drops by around 15%-20%. Should the HP be adjusted up? ... of course, some analysis is necessary for HttT and possibly other campaigns.

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zookeeper
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Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Post by zookeeper » December 23rd, 2017, 12:53 pm

revolting_peasant wrote:There was, however, a question regarding whether the HP should change to balance out the resistance changes. Mermen units have no Blade attacks except for Tritons, and in Dead Water, the protagonist units are even more slanted in favor of Impact, Arcane and Pierce. So the expected damage of a Merman attack on a TotD now drops by around 15%-20%. Should the HP be adjusted up? ... of course, some analysis is necessary for HttT and possibly other campaigns.
There's only a handful of tentacles in DW halfway through the campaign, so I doubt that requires any particular rebalancing, and there's none in HttT. NR, TRoW and UtBS do make slightly more use of them, and arguably the resistance changes might make some difference in those scenarios.

A HP change doesn't sound unreasonable, though, but then again the current 28 is already very low so I think 24 would be about as low as it could go.

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Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Post by revolting_peasant » December 23rd, 2017, 5:19 pm

So how about 25 HP then?

Also - aren't there TotD in the Ford of Abez scenario? (edit:) Oh, I see, it's just Cuttle Fish and a Sea Serpent. Nevermind.

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Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Post by holypaladin » December 25th, 2017, 9:08 pm

Right,right,. but tentacle from the deep is good.
But new unit like giant tentacle is very good idea
I am a holypaladin. I fight agains darkness. Me or other paladins be a bandits. We alianced witch a orcs and dwarwes

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Lordlewis
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Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Post by Lordlewis » December 26th, 2017, 9:12 am

Another thing is that the Elvish ranger has a sand of 40% and the human ranger has 30% and I think it should both be 40%.
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revolting_peasant
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Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Post by revolting_peasant » December 26th, 2017, 12:27 pm

Lordlewis, holypaladin: Those are interesting suggestions for a different thread, please don't take the discussion here off track.

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Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Post by Midnight_Carnival » April 18th, 2018, 9:10 pm

My random thoughts:
arcane, impact, blade and pierce I agree with what most people say.

Temperature based attacks... well it depends on the size of the creature.
Many aquatic beasties are in fact very sensitive to changes in temperature, owners of tropical fish will know that if the power goes out, it is sometimes more likely that the lack of heater will kill them before the lack of oxygenating doodads. Obviously, that depends on where you are, but still, tropical fish are notorious for dying easily and temperature changes are a killer for them.

However, if it is a very deep sea monster, well we can assume that unless it makes its home near volcanic trenches, it is going to be fairly used to cold.
The sea is very cold around Greenland, but not quite so cold around Thailand. Assuming that it would be resistant to cold because it comes from the sea could be problematic unless we establish the exact origin of the creature, but it is assumed that if it is from "the deep" it will be able to cope with cold.

As for fire.
I think that it is from a sort of cephalopod. If that is the case, there are 2 things we must bear in mind.
1) the neurons in the tentacles (as already stated) meaning it won't need to wait for the neuron to travel the 50m length of the tentacle before the brain processes that the wizard has cast a fire spell and that it should submerge, it will quickly realise that it should retract.
2) being a cephalopod, we can picture it being covered in either mucus or at the very least water. A short, intense burst of heat would scorch the surface, but a lot of liquid would evaporate quickly protecting the internal structures from harm - then we should consider that it is exothermic and that it is from "the deep" which is by in large a little warmer than freezing. We should also consider that it is a large creature. While the skin might be scalded by a fire attack, it is unlikely that the inside will be badly damaged unless it can't get out of the way in time.
edit: Picture yourself trying to cook a large frozen fish with an aerosol can and a cigarette lighter :roll:

I would say that cold would do more damage than fire, but only a little.
The fire attack will scald the skin on the above water part for a short period, but few except high level mages and probably Armageddon Drakes can produce enough heat to boil large quantities of sea water.
Cold could easily effect water temperature and rob the creature of energy. Yes, it may come from a cold environment, but we should bear in mind that it probably took weeks to rise from the depths in order to acclimatise itself to the changes in temperature and pressure.
Suddenly making the whole animal a few degrees colder could really hurt it since it is exothermic and used to a constant water temperature.

I would throw in my 2c worth and say 0 resistance to cold and low positive resistance to fire.
...apparenly we can't go with it or something.

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Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Post by Flameslash » April 19th, 2018, 11:20 am

Where does the Tentacle of the Deep appear? Off of the top of my head, it's in the (cold) north in Dead Water, and also in the (hot) desert in Under the Burning Suns. Those are two pretty different climates, which would suggest decent resistances to temperature changes.

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