[mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Brainstorm ideas of possible additions to the game. Read this before posting!

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Forum rules
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:

[mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Postby revolting_peasant » October 7th, 2017, 3:52 pm

So, I'm playing a mainline campagin which has some Tentacles of the Deep. Intuitively, I would assume the following resistances:

  • Arcane: It's a natural rather than a magical creature, so either 0% or Positive Low.
  • Blade: Negative Medium-High - it's a narrow tentacle; just cut it and, well, there's not much left (up to regeneration of course)
  • Cold: Positive Middle. Sea creatures are ok with cold, although totally frozen may not work so well for them.
  • Fire: Negative Low. Water creates don't like dryness and heat.
  • Impact: Zero or possibly Positive Low. Not much to "hit" on a tentacle, and if you do "hit" it it'll just be retracted.
  • Pierce: Positive Low. The tentacle is narrow and moves quickly, so it's hard to hit with a piercing weapon. If you have hit it, though, the damage should be serious I suppose, the tentacle is kind of soft. edit: I've been convinced that this should be Zero, since the resistance is only relevant to the amount of damage, not the chance to hit.

yet what we have is:

  • Arcane: -30% <-- why?! this makes no sense to me
  • Blade: 0% <-- should be lower
  • Cold: 0% <-- should be higher
  • Fire: 0% <-- should be lower
  • Impact: -10% <-- ok
  • Pierce: 0% <-- should be higher edit: on second thought this is ok

which is very surprising. What gives? And - is there a chance for this to be changed (I know, I know, balance issues; but still).
Last edited by revolting_peasant on November 25th, 2017, 4:59 pm, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
revolting_peasant
 
Posts: 57
Joined: May 29th, 2012, 5:45 pm

Re: Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Postby Pentarctagon » October 7th, 2017, 5:18 pm

Moved to Ideas, since Game Development is for discussion of non-Wesnoth games.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
User avatar
Pentarctagon
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 2976
Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
Location: Earth (occasionally)

Re: Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Postby shadowm » October 7th, 2017, 6:00 pm

revolting_peasant wrote:Arcane: It's a natural rather than a magical create

We don’t know that for sure.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.
I also made Wesnoth RCX, a team-color preview tool for artists and content creators.
Elsewhere: shadowmBlogFollow me on Twitter
User avatar
shadowm
Wesnoth.org Administrator
 
Posts: 6185
Joined: November 14th, 2006, 5:54 pm
Location: Chile

Re: Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Postby revolting_peasant » October 7th, 2017, 6:06 pm

shadowm wrote:We don’t know that for sure.

Ah, so, this is a philosophical point actually. First, if we stick by the -30% arcane resistance, then we _do_ know for sure, in the sense that we've decided it's magical. Also, "we" are the game development community (ok, not me, I just play and contribute to the walkthroughs), so we know everything for sure since we decide.

To be more concrete though - other sea monsters - the Serpent, the Kraken - are not magical. Or... is it magical because of the regeneration?
User avatar
revolting_peasant
 
Posts: 57
Joined: May 29th, 2012, 5:45 pm

Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Postby Lordlewis » October 7th, 2017, 10:06 pm

I think the arcane is to suggest it's always in the darkness of a cave or the water in is in, and since it is called what it is which is the tentacle of the deep which leads me to believe that it's always been deep under the water. Also because it's so squishy the impact would easily break it and bend it over or something, but who knows if it really is squishy. Also the resistance should be relatively the same as the cuttlefish because that's were they come from most of the time. Also I don't really think of this creature of being magical due to regeneration considering the cuttlefish in real life as well can regenerate it's tentacles back at times, so that's why it's not magical. I think the fire damage should be normal or less but because it needs water it's going to dry up, if it is hit by fire it may dry up faster (if it was real) but every living thing in the game needs water to live should they all have less fire resistance? So I think it should just stay as 0% instead of 10% or 20%. The blade part I would agree with is that they should easily be able to be cut off or something. The pierce on the other hand shouldn't change, it being hard to hit or not shouldn't change how much damage is dealt if it is hit anyways, also how does anyone know if it is soft? I guessing it is considering real life cuttlefish. The cold resistance is another thing I would agree with considering the cuttlefish's resistance with the cold which is 60%, and all creature that live in the water have cold resistance as far as I know of, but the tentacle is apart of the cuttlefish so shouldn't the cuttlefish get damaged by the tentacle getting hurt? Also the creature who is attached to the tentacles should be getting hot as well considering the tentacle isn't a single organism. PS this is the longest post I think I've ever written.
GOLD IS GREAT!
Swat them bugs!
User avatar
Lordlewis
 
Posts: 162
Joined: July 20th, 2016, 11:15 am
Location: All around, every where. All in one place yet I'm there.-Lordlewis

Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Postby Samonella » October 7th, 2017, 10:47 pm

Lordlewis wrote:Also the creature who is attached to the tentacles should be getting hot as well considering the tentacle isn't a single organism.
Off topic:
Anyway, as for the resistances, I agree with everything in the original post except the arcane resistance. (I think it would be fine if it was 0, but I also have an easy time believing it's a magical creature.)
Last edited by Samonella on October 8th, 2017, 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
The last few months have been nothing but one big, painful reminder that TIMTLTW.

Creator of Armory Mod, The Rising Underworld, and Vengeance of a Drake: an RPG
Samonella
 
Posts: 291
Joined: January 8th, 2016, 5:41 pm
Location: USA

Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Postby Lordlewis » October 7th, 2017, 10:54 pm

Yes I've heard of this and it is so for the cuttlefish as far as I know, also I meant that the tentacles are attached to the cuttlefish, they are very interesting creature (this seems to be more about cuttlefish than I first thought).
GOLD IS GREAT!
Swat them bugs!
User avatar
Lordlewis
 
Posts: 162
Joined: July 20th, 2016, 11:15 am
Location: All around, every where. All in one place yet I'm there.-Lordlewis

Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Postby revolting_peasant » October 13th, 2017, 11:02 pm

Lordlewis wrote:Also because it's so squishy the impact would easily break it and bend it over or something.

Bending = not breaking... and sqiushy things are more resistant to impact than crispy things.
User avatar
revolting_peasant
 
Posts: 57
Joined: May 29th, 2012, 5:45 pm

Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Postby Can-ned_Food » October 22nd, 2017, 4:12 pm

If it has problems with the lower air pressure out of the ocean depths, then it wouldn't survive long. It would promptly explode and deteriorate when brought up.

As to the pierce resistance: puncture wounds cause minimal damage to most organs. The damage comes from either
  • leakage of vital fluids
    e.g. blood
  • damage resulting from contamination
    Puncturing the intestines or stomach causes damage to surrounding tissues. At mildest, it produces ulcers.
  • reduction of pressure
    Insects are like this. They use pumps and pressure of internal fluids for most of their articulated limbs.
  • bypassing necessary flow paths or change of volumes in cavities
    This happens when the thorax is pierced: If the thoracic cavity fills and the lungs do not, then you will suffocate. Also can happen if that cavity fills with fluid, and a few other things which decrease effective lung capacity.
  • interruption of nerve threads or the like
    Technically, with such a condition it is better described as something other than a puncture.
Can-ned_Food
 
Posts: 110
Joined: December 17th, 2015, 10:27 pm

Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Postby Celtic_Minstrel » October 24th, 2017, 5:14 am

Lordlewis wrote:Also the resistance should be relatively the same as the cuttlefish because that's were they come from most of the time.

Um, there's no reason to suppose that the tentacles of the deep belong to a cuttlefish, and in fact I think it's rather unlikely that they do. At most you know that they belong to a cephalopod, but there are several types of cephalopods besides cuttlefish - nautiluses, squid, octopuses, and the extinct ammonites. Personally I'd say the tentacles most likely belong to some type of giant octopus, since octopuses seem to have longer arms than other cephalopods. On the other hand, if you're basing it on actual real species, a giant squid would be more likely, since the largest living cephalopods are squid. That's not to say the other options are out of the question, sure, but I think most people who use the tentacles of the deep in a scenario are actually thinking of the kraken (which is generally depicted as a squid or octopus as far as I know), rather than a cuttlefish.
Author of The Black Cross of Aleron campaign and Default++ era.
Maintainer of Steelhive.
User avatar
Celtic_Minstrel
Developer
 
Posts: 770
Joined: August 3rd, 2012, 11:26 pm

Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Postby Lordlewis » October 24th, 2017, 5:30 am

I would say it would be from any, it's really up to the writers, but isn't the kraken only in one of the campaigns and the tentacles of the deep seems to spawn close to the cuttlefish at the start of a scenario or be recruited (or on it's on it's own on occasion). Like in the the merman campaign in the scenario "uncharted lands" it starts off with a cuttlefish with three tentacle of the deep next to each other, but it could as ways come from else where. It all really depends.
GOLD IS GREAT!
Swat them bugs!
User avatar
Lordlewis
 
Posts: 162
Joined: July 20th, 2016, 11:15 am
Location: All around, every where. All in one place yet I'm there.-Lordlewis

Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Postby Celtic_Minstrel » October 24th, 2017, 12:55 pm

If you have a cuttlefish and several tentacles of the deep together, without any unusual mechanics, it makes no sense to suggest that those tentacles belong to the cuttlefish. If they did, merely defeating the cuttlefish would destroy all the tentacles as well (or at the very least, severely weaken them).
Author of The Black Cross of Aleron campaign and Default++ era.
Maintainer of Steelhive.
User avatar
Celtic_Minstrel
Developer
 
Posts: 770
Joined: August 3rd, 2012, 11:26 pm

Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Postby Lordlewis » November 5th, 2017, 9:42 pm

That's kind of what I meant by "but it could as ways come from else where. It all really depends." Also the kraken has the same resistance in the dead water campaign as the cuttlefish. I think there should probably be a poll on this discussion to state if the resistance should change, stay the same or have the same as "deep sea" movement type (but still have it so it can only be in water).
GOLD IS GREAT!
Swat them bugs!
User avatar
Lordlewis
 
Posts: 162
Joined: July 20th, 2016, 11:15 am
Location: All around, every where. All in one place yet I'm there.-Lordlewis

Re: [mainline] Tentacle of the Deep resistances all wrong?

Postby revolting_peasant » November 25th, 2017, 4:49 pm

Lordlewis wrote:I think the arcane is to suggest it's always in the darkness of a cave or the water in is in, and since it is called what it is which is the tentacle of the deep which leads me to believe that it's always been deep under the water.

There are lots of fish living in the deep sea, in the darkness. Are they suscpetible to arcane damage more than your goldwish in a bowl? I don't think so...
Lordlewis wrote: Also the resistance should be relatively the same as the cuttlefish because that's were they come from most of the time.

As others suggest, that doesn't seem to be the case. Still, the resistances of the cuttlefish should at least inspire those of the TotD, e.g. the 60% cold resistance you m mentioned.
Lordlewis wrote:The pierce on the other hand shouldn't change, it being hard to hit or not shouldn't change how much damage is dealt if it is hit anyways, also how does anyone know if it is soft?

Hmm. Good point. I'll edit that.
User avatar
revolting_peasant
 
Posts: 57
Joined: May 29th, 2012, 5:45 pm


Return to Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests