Multiplayer Simultaneous moves

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clmates
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Multiplayer Simultaneous moves

Post by clmates »

Hi.

it will be great an option to allow simultaneous movements of all players, in a style like VGA Planets, ie: all players move and when all end turn, the computer makes all moves and shows the results. in fact the same system could be used for one user games.

This will enhance the gameplay and strategy factor of multiplayer games. givin faster movement. perhaps it could be complemented with a max time by turn option to fix the speed of the game.
Best regards

clmates
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Elvish_Pillager
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Re: Multiplayer Simultaneous moves

Post by Elvish_Pillager »

clmates wrote:it will be great an option
Wow, you managed to suggest two ideas I don't like in one suggestion. Never mind that though. :)

Thing is, that idea has recently been discussed quite a bit, actually. And the time limits have been discussed to death... don't talk about time limits, OK?
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Darth Fool
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Re: Multiplayer Simultaneous moves

Post by Darth Fool »

clmates wrote:Hi.

it will be great an option to allow simultaneous movements of all players, in a style like VGA Planets, ie: all players move and when all end turn, the computer makes all moves and shows the results. in fact the same system could be used for one user games.

This will enhance the gameplay and strategy factor of multiplayer games. givin faster movement. perhaps it could be complemented with a max time by turn option to fix the speed of the game.
I, personally, like this type of game, but I don't know that Wesnoth is designed for it. There are a lot of issues that one has to deal with that are not in a single-player turn model, and without designing from the ground up to do this, it can be quite hard to convert between the two styles of play.
ZombieEater
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Post by ZombieEater »

Not that I'm supporting the idea (I hate simultaneous move), but the Age of Wonders series also has the option for it.

It does speed up online games, but you always have trouble of keeping your forces together without moving them one hex at a time. Plus, if you have any lag issues it could mean one player makes several moves really quickly, while you are still waiting for your current move to be processed.

Did I mention I really hate simultaneous move?
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derb
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Post by derb »

I like it... as an option. Players who don't want to play that way don't have to!
clmates
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Post by clmates »

Hi
ZombieEater wrote:Not that I'm supporting the idea (I hate simultaneous move), but the Age of Wonders series also has the option for it.

It does speed up online games, but you always have trouble of keeping your forces together without moving them one hex at a time. Plus, if you have any lag issues it could mean one player makes several moves really quickly, while you are still waiting for your current move to be processed.

Did I mention I really hate simultaneous move?

Well, i don't explain well, i mean simultaneosu movement, and when all players finish their turn, the server process all movements at once, thus is not a race of fast movements, you set your instructions to your troops, but they really move all at once.

in fact you can order a unit to go to an hex and attack an enemy unit, but qhen the moves are processed, the enemy has moved also.

this gives a fast multiplayer game (no one is waiting), and is not a race of movements.

I also suggested the time limit, but it also could be implemented in several ways, ie:

The time who has the last player to hit the end turn after all the others has ended their turns.

i'll try to explain. If you set five minute amd you are playing a 4 players game. when 3 players ended their turns, the last player has 5 minutes to end his turn.

And remember that the time option is only that, an option :)
Best regards

clmates
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Post by Dave »

clmates wrote: in fact you can order a unit to go to an hex and attack an enemy unit, but qhen the moves are processed, the enemy has moved also.
Right....but since units almost always move in a turn, wouldn't that make it almost impossible to ever actually attack someone?

David
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clmates
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Post by clmates »

Hi.
Dave wrote:
clmates wrote: in fact you can order a unit to go to an hex and attack an enemy unit, but qhen the moves are processed, the enemy has moved also.
Right....but since units almost always move in a turn, wouldn't that make it almost impossible to ever actually attack someone?

David
Well, you can guess the movements of your enemys, and citys are always there.

take a look at vga planets or at stars, are spatial strategy games, but the kind of game (fist all orders, then all moves), is applicable to any strategy games.

it make much faster multiplayer games.

and eliminate the turn advantage.
Best regards

clmates
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Post by Dave »

clmates wrote:
Dave wrote: Right....but since units almost always move in a turn, wouldn't that make it almost impossible to ever actually attack someone?

David
Well, you can guess the movements of your enemys, and citys are always there.
Since a unit can usually move to any of around 50 hexes on any given turn, I think it's unlikely you'd be able to guess where they're going to move, especially if they know you're trying to guess, and they don't want you to be able to attack them.

The only way you'd get to fight is if a unit moves onto a village, or other strategically very interesting point, but in this case the attacker is always going to be at a substantial disadvantage.

I like sim-move games, however I think you have to have a ruleset that is very carefully designed and constructed for simultaneous movement, and I don't think the Wesnoth ruleset is anywhere even close to working well with sim-moves.

David
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming
clmates
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Post by clmates »

Hi.

Well, you can guess the movements of your enemys, and citys are always there.[/quote]

Since a unit can usually move to any of around 50 hexes on any given turn, I think it's unlikely you'd be able to guess where they're going to move, especially if they know you're trying to guess, and they don't want you to be able to attack them.

The only way you'd get to fight is if a unit moves onto a village, or other strategically very interesting point, but in this case the attacker is always going to be at a substantial disadvantage.

I like sim-move games, however I think you have to have a ruleset that is very carefully designed and constructed for simultaneous movement, and I don't think the Wesnoth ruleset is anywhere even close to working well with sim-moves.

David[/quote]

Well, if you both go to a city in the same turn, none got any advantage, you both enter in hte city at the same time.

perhaps is dificult to chase a unit in open land, but with several units moving, and with the restriction of one unit per Hex and zones of control, the posible moves in a battle are more limited.

this make easiest to flee, but the attack is practically the same if the enemy is a group of units.
Best regards

clmates
silene
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Post by silene »

clmates wrote:with the restriction of one unit per Hex and zones of control, the posible moves in a battle are more limited.
How are zones of control handled when all the units move at the same time?
clmates
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Post by clmates »

silene wrote:
clmates wrote:with the restriction of one unit per Hex and zones of control, the posible moves in a battle are more limited.
How are zones of control handled when all the units move at the same time?
Two options could be implemented, static or dinamic

Static: Exactly like in the standar game. The zone of control of your actual position. when all are moving, no one is in control of any zone. thus you can pass beside an enemy unit who also is moving without interference.

Dinamic: Implements the static zones, and also checks for conflict between moving units. two enemy units passing alongside would stop and finish their move.

In both options:

If two enemy units when moving crosses by the same hex, they will fight

If you stand in front of an enemy unit and try to fight, he can't flee if you are faster than he, if you are slower, he could flee by moving to other hex. The zone of control only limits his possible escape options.
Best regards

clmates
dms
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Post by dms »

IMHO the problem with delaying everything to the end of the turn is that you can't see what you're doing. You'd have to blindly queue up moves that might not even be valid.


Another possibility is the way multiplayer freeciv does it:

-No undo; actions happen immediately.
-The server processes actions one at a time in the order they are received.

This means you can see what you're doing, and there's no need for new rules to deal multiple units moving at the same time.

Of course this way is not strictly turn-based: The outcome of many battles would depend on who attacks who, i.e. who is faster. Sharing turns only between allies would largely solve this though.
newbie
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Post by newbie »

Or you can just forget about the movement of units and just have them go head to head one on one (:.
Or one on focus firing.
Just an idea from my head. This topic is really to complicated for me, at least I admit it (:.
addicted to this game would be an understatement <(@.@)> .
Sangel
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Post by Sangel »

Wesnoth is a Turn-Based Strategy Game. Turn-Based Strategy Games require that players take turns.

If you want a Real-Time Strategy Game, I understand that Blizzard has several well-regarded offerings.
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