Addition of Unused Mainline Units To Default Era

Brainstorm ideas of possible additions to the game. Read this before posting!

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Forum rules
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:

Addition of Unused Mainline Units To Default Era

Postby Gyra_Solune » April 9th, 2017, 1:35 pm

For the most part this applies to level 2 units as alt promotions and heroes, basically!

There's a number of odd units that are just laying about which I think some different things ought to be done with!

I think for starters, the Royal Warrior and Death Knight ought to be put in as available heroes for the Loyalists and Undead respectively in Age of Heroes. The era's balance is dubious anyway and those two would be relatively minor impacts. Death Knight's a little more questionable, since Leadership is powerful and Undead normally can't use it, but the Royal Warrior should be fine as an option.

Additionally I wonder if the Troll Shaman and Elvish Lord ought to be alternate level 2 promotions for the Troll Whelp and Elvish Fighter/Archer respectively. Lord is a little questionable - it's basically a really damn good unit on the whole, being pretty much just 'a better Elvish Hero' - if it's added as an option to the normal Rebels faction, I think it ought to be reduced in power somehow. If it's a promotion for the Fighter, lower its HP to around 48 or 49, and diminish its melee attack to...say, a 6-5? High Lord is fine as is. The Shaman should be okay as-is as well - the magic makes it more powerful at ranged than the Rocklobber, but it's nowhere near as capable at melee where the Rocklobber is basically dual-ranged in every way. If they aren't made alt promotions though, I still think they'd be fine as just being options for heroes in default.

On a similar note, is the Dwarvish Runesmith not a default leader for the Knalgan Alliance entirely due to the lore about how, by the time of HttT, runecrafting has been lost? I remember one campaign resulted in every one of them dying at once, but didn't a later campaign involve the revival of the craft? In the first chronological one, the Runesmith is outright an alternate promotion for the Fighter, and I think it's a fair one - it loses power and HP but gains magical melee which is always fun. Do you think the line ought to be selectable as a leader, or even put in as a Fighter alt promotion?

The Orcish Ruler is in a similar position but considering it is very much outright a better Orcish Warrior, just slightly weaker, I wouldn't suggest it as strongly for the Northerners except maybe as a hero.

(also I still have not gotten an answer as to why the Khalifate cannot use the Faris or Qatif-al-nar as heroes in Default where their promotions are fine in Age of Heroes!)
User avatar
Gyra_Solune
 
Posts: 263
Joined: July 29th, 2015, 5:23 am

Re: Addition of Unused Mainline Units To Default Era

Postby The_Gnat » April 29th, 2017, 3:32 am

Hello! A number of factors are involved in why these units you mentioned are not in the mainline eras, here are the main reasons i have heard:

Leaders of factions are limited to a certain movement. I believe no horse rider, or unit faster than 6 is supposed to be a leader.

Many units in mainline (such as the elvish high lord, and the dwarvish pathfinder, dwarvish runesmith, troll shaman, and many others) are unbalanced (either too weak, or too strong). The high lord is FAR superior to, for example, the elvish captain. Because of this it could not be added to the default or Age of Heroes without rebalancing. However, rebalancing these units would make unbalances in campaigns.

The default era is also much more balanced than the Age of Heroes. Because of this the developers attempt to preserve the balance of the default era, even more so than the Age of Heroes. So where the faris and qatif-al-nar are fine in the Age of Heroes they are too unbalanced to be leaders in the default era. I do not know in exactly what way they have been considered unbalanced but most likely the massive hitting power of the faris (and the unique 1 strike) and the fire damage (on melee) for the qatif are the reasons.

NOTE: many units are removed or added to the default era because of much more complex things than just damage and hp. For example the damage type a unit inflicts (such as arcane or fire) can seriously change a battle between factions. Every faction in the default era has been balanced against every other, and so even minor things would of set the current balance.

Though i personally do not play wesnoth with much strategy ;) i have found that many people are Extreme strategists and will massively exploit any opportunity to gain an advantage. Because of these reasons, despite the fact that i agree some of these units should be added, i doubt that they will be added to the mainline era's because of the attempt to preserve balance.

However, i have been attempting to make a new smaller (and more balanced) Age of Heroes era here, called the age of heroes rebalanced. Perhaps you would be interested in trying it and making suggestions.

Also others UMC era's have done what you have proposed. The default complete era, and era of more units implement similar ideas to what you have suggested.

Hopefully this is helpful! :D
User avatar
The_Gnat
 
Posts: 1350
Joined: October 10th, 2016, 3:06 am

Re: Addition of Unused Mainline Units To Default Era

Postby Vyncyn » April 29th, 2017, 8:33 pm

The_Gnat wrote:Leaders of factions are limited to a certain movement. I believe no horse rider, or unit faster than 6 is supposed to be a leader.

What you said is correct, but I want to add it could be possible to to have a 7mp leader and give him the "slow" trait (just like the 4mp leaders get the quick trait).
User avatar
Vyncyn
Forum Regular
 
Posts: 328
Joined: April 6th, 2013, 5:51 pm

Re: Addition of Unused Mainline Units To Default Era

Postby Yomar » April 30th, 2017, 12:18 am

Yes, in fact, I remember that in the firsts versions of Wesnoth, you could have more kindvof units as a leader, like the horseman, for example.

Vyncyn wrote:
The_Gnat wrote:Leaders of factions are limited to a certain movement. I believe no horse rider, or unit faster than 6 is supposed to be a leader.

What you said is correct, but I want to add it could be possible to to have a 7mp leader and give him the "slow" trait (just like the 4mp leaders get the quick trait).


In theory yes, but slow trait is reserved mostly for goblins, cause its a negative trait, while the leaders, that have the quick traits are units that can get this "standard" trait also in the defaultvand aoh eras.
Plus there are few units that have 7mp as standard.
Yomar
 
Posts: 238
Joined: October 27th, 2011, 5:14 am


Return to Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BTIsaac, James_The_Invisible and 2 guests