Recruitment

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Re: Recruitment

Postby The_Gnat » December 8th, 2016, 12:19 am

MagnetoRN wrote:
I have however created a mod that allows you to assign a hero. The hero can recruit, you do not lose if he dies, you may only have one hero at a time, you may unassign and reassign heros at any point on your turn by right clicking on the unit you want, if your leader dies all heros can no longer recruit (for multiplayer games with 3+ players).

What I had in mind was something so simple that could be applied to all game modes (even campaign) without really affecting the gameplay/balance of the game. The possibility to unassign and reassign heroes is cool, but that and the fact that you won't lose if your hero dies would be a little distant from the original gameplay, don't you think?


Thanks for the feedback! I could make it so everyone can recruit, however that is basically what I was considering. The only difference is that you assign the units who you want to recruit. I agree it is not necessary to have the player assign the unit they want to recruit but I feel it makes it more interesting.

As for differing from the original gameplay, sorry about the confusion, I did not mean you dont lose if your leader dies but only you dont lose if the hero that you have assigned dies.

Ofcourse if you still think I should make everyone be able to recruit that is fine also.
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Re: Recruitment

Postby MagnetoRN » December 8th, 2016, 12:44 am

Of course if you still think I should make everyone be able to recruit that is fine also.

That would be amazing, man! Would it work on all modes (including campaign)?
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Re: Recruitment

Postby The_Gnat » December 8th, 2016, 1:17 am

MagnetoRN wrote:
Of course if you still think I should make everyone be able to recruit that is fine also.

That would be amazing, man! Would it work on all modes (including campaign)?


It would definitely work for all gamemodes. The only thing I am considering is that we have not quite solved the leader problem. Infact I believe we now have given him the ability to hide in a cave while the battle goes on without him. The leader needs some other changes also. You said previously you have other ideas would any of them help solve this issue and motivate a player to use their leader?

Also this might cause one other problem: skirmishers and units with ambush are dramatically more powerful! All you need is to sneak up on the enemy and then suddenly any of your soldiers can fill the enemies castle with your units.

(Edit: a idea I have to help involve leaders is: only your leader can kill the enemies leader. If anyone else kills him he is just 1hp and slowed/poisoned and you still must kill him with your leader. This would radically change gameplay and so I think it is probably to different)

(EDIT2: unfortunately i have just realized that if i do set all units to be able to recruit, that it will cause many problems in filters. For example in scenarios it will allow you to win as soon as you kill any enemy rather than the enemy leader. This will happen now because the computer doesn't realize the leader is now no longer the only unit that can recruit and still says when a unit who can recruit dies end the scenario.)
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Re: Recruitment

Postby MagnetoRN » December 8th, 2016, 4:12 am

It would definitely work for all gamemodes. The only thing I am considering is that we have not quite solved the leader problem. Infact I believe we now have given him the ability to hide in a cave while the battle goes on without him. The leader needs some other changes also. You said previously you have other ideas would any of them help solve this issue and motivate a player to use their leader?

Also this might cause one other problem: skirmishers and units with ambush are dramatically more powerful! All you need is to sneak up on the enemy and then suddenly any of your soldiers can fill the enemies castle with your units.


Well, after reading your 2 edits, I cant only think right now about the creation of a basic unit called "Recruiter". This unit would be able to recruit all other units, except for another recruiter (only the Hero can recruit one). The Recruiter would have poor to no fighting skills, low hp, no evolution, and only 1 point of movement, so that you would be forced to go to the enemy keep with you Hero and recruit the Recruiter there. Right now, this unit could use any warrior sprite, like the elvish fighter, for example (in the future, it could receive the sprite of someone attractive to the race, according to the lore, like a bard, a torturer, etc.). I don't know how hard is this, but I think it is the best solution, both for "taking" the keep and making the Hero still necessary on the battlefield.

What do you think?
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Re: Recruitment

Postby The_Gnat » December 8th, 2016, 4:20 am

MagnetoRN wrote:Well, after reading your 2 edits, I cant only think right now about the creation of a basic unit called "Recruiter". This unit would be able to recruit all other units, except for another recruiter (only the Hero can recruit one). The Recruiter would have poor to no fighting skills, low hp, no evolution, and only 1 point of movement, so that you would be forced to go to the enemy keep with you Hero and recruit the Recruiter there. Right now, this unit could use any warrior sprite, like the elvish fighter, for example (in the future, it could receive the sprite of someone attractive to the race, according to the lore, like a bard, a torturer, etc.). I don't know how hard is this, but I think it is the best solution, both for "taking" the keep and making the Hero still necessary on the battlefield.

What do you think?


I really like this idea! It appears to solve all the difficulties!
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Re: Recruitment

Postby MagnetoRN » December 8th, 2016, 4:25 am

I really like this idea! It appears to solve all the difficulties!


Great! Would it still be a problem when the Recruiter is killed? Maybe it is possible to set this particular unit to just dissapear when it reaches 0 hp (I don't know how the program recognizes a death and if that can be circumvented).
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Re: Recruitment

Postby The_Gnat » December 8th, 2016, 5:16 am

MagnetoRN wrote:
I really like this idea! It appears to solve all the difficulties!


Great! Would it still be a problem when the Recruiter is killed? Maybe it is possible to set this particular unit to just dissapear when it reaches 0 hp (I don't know how the program recognizes a death and if that can be circumvented).


No that won't be a problem!
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Re: Recruitment

Postby MagnetoRN » December 8th, 2016, 6:00 am

No that won't be a problem!


SERIOUSLY? WOW!! Now I'm all excited about it!! I can't wait to play with the Hero leading the troops!
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Re: Recruitment

Postby Eagle_11 » December 8th, 2016, 10:18 am

Re: player owned keeps
you can define an custom overlay tile in addon, and wml that makes unit entering tile of that type gain canrecruit=yes, and then lose ability to recruit upon leaving tile of that type, then make an script that places it on each keep tile of mp-map at gamestart. Obviously you'll need to find a way to filter out the original leader for this to function as otherwise you will lose upon moving your leader out of the starting keep.

One of my mods allows to have expendable, secondary leaders.
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Re: Recruitment

Postby MagnetoRN » December 8th, 2016, 1:38 pm

Eagle_11 wrote:Re: player owned keeps
you can define an custom overlay tile in addon, and wml that makes unit entering tile of that type gain canrecruit=yes, and then lose ability to recruit upon leaving tile of that type, then make an script that places it on each keep tile of mp-map at gamestart. Obviously you'll need to find a way to filter out the original leader for this to function as otherwise you will lose upon moving your leader out of the starting keep.

One of my mods allows to have expendable, secondary leaders.


Cool! The point here is to modify the minimum possible the original game (just to give you the chance to play with your hero on the front at all times without affecting the game too much). So, about your secondary heroes:
- are they the only change?
- are they only recrutable by the main hero?
- are they useless to fight and move, forcing you to still use you hero to conquer other keeps?
- can this modification be an option (checkbox) that works on all game modes?

Thank you very much for your help, man!!
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Re: Recruitment

Postby The_Gnat » December 9th, 2016, 8:29 am

Hi, i have pretty much finished the mod now!!! I was just wondering how much (about) you think the recruiter should cost? (what about his hitpoints?)

Thank you
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Re: Recruitment

Postby MagnetoRN » December 9th, 2016, 1:01 pm

Hi, i have pretty much finished the mod now!!! I was just wondering how much (about) you think the recruiter should cost? (what about his hitpoints?)


Awesome!

Since the point is to get your hero on the field as fast as possible, and the Recruiter must be almost useless in battle, it shouldn't be costly to make one. It could be:
- 20 hp.
- 10 gold.
- base defense on flat terrain of 30%.
- 1 attack of 5 damage.
- 1 movement.

Do you think it would be better to put a limit of 1 Recruiter? I don't see any problems with more than one, since your money will limit you anyway, but tell me what you think.

Thanks.
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Re: Recruitment

Postby The_Gnat » December 9th, 2016, 10:14 pm

MagnetoRN wrote:
Hi, i have pretty much finished the mod now!!! I was just wondering how much (about) you think the recruiter should cost? (what about his hitpoints?)


Awesome!

Since the point is to get your hero on the field as fast as possible, and the Recruiter must be almost useless in battle, it shouldn't be costly to make one. It could be:
- 20 hp.
- 10 gold.
- base defense on flat terrain of 30%.
- 1 attack of 5 damage.
- 1 movement.

Do you think it would be better to put a limit of 1 Recruiter? I don't see any problems with more than one, since your money will limit you anyway, but tell me what you think.

Thanks.


I like your idea! What i was thinking is that you could buy as many recruiters as you want (so that when you take other castles with your hero you could buy more recruiters there).

Also there are some fairly large castle in some maps so i think 3 movement would be better, while still limiting him to his castle. 20hp and 10gp is good and i was thinking to give the recruiter the defense & resistance of whatever race he is (for example a skeleton recruiter would have good resistance to blade,pierce and elf would have good defense in forest)

The only problem with the mod is that the ai get carried away and buy three or four recruiters (in multiplayer) and that is pointless ;)

Ok, so i have released the mod now in "The Balance Mod", it has one other option also but since this is a small change (only adding one unit) i didn't want to create a whole new add-on. In multiplayer a modification check box will appear under the era options but unfortunately the single player menu does not give that option so you will have to download "The Balance Mod Campaign"!

I'd love to hear feedback, comments, suggestions and bugs!! Hopefully this is what you were expecting.
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Re: Recruitment

Postby MagnetoRN » December 9th, 2016, 11:29 pm

I like your idea! What i was thinking is that you could buy as many recruiters as you want (so that when you take other castles with your hero you could buy more recruiters there).

The only problem with the mod is that the ai get carried away and buy three or four recruiters (in multiplayer) and that is pointless ;)


Nice, I meant to recrute many Recruiters, but maybe it would be better to limit to 1 Recruiter just while the AI isn't fixed to use them correctly. What do you think?

Also there are some fairly large castle in some maps so i think 3 movement would be better, while still limiting him to his castle.


But even in large castles, can't you always recruit him on the hexagon adjacent to the keep? He would need only 1 movement anyway.

20hp and 10gp is good and i was thinking to give the recruiter the defense & resistance of whatever race he is (for example a skeleton recruiter would have good resistance to blade,pierce and elf would have good defense in forest)


Great, that's even better than I thought.

Ok, so i have released the mod now in "The Balance Mod", it has one other option also but since this is a small change (only adding one unit) i didn't want to create a whole new add-on. In multiplayer a modification check box will appear under the era options but unfortunately the single player menu does not give that option so you will have to download "The Balance Mod Campaign"!

I'd love to hear feedback, comments, suggestions and bugs!! Hopefully this is what you were expecting.


I was playing the android version on the Tablet, but if the add-on doesn't work with that version, I'll install it on the PC and try (Is "The Balance Mod Campaign" the regular campaign with the modifications?).

Thanks, man!
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Re: Recruitment

Postby The_Gnat » December 10th, 2016, 12:12 am

I was playing the android version on the Tablet, but if the add-on doesn't work with that version, I'll install it on the PC and try (Is "The Balance Mod Campaign" the regular campaign with the modifications?).

Thanks, man!


It should work on the tablet but you need to intsall The Balance Mod as well as The Balance Mod Campaign to make it work for campaigns. Tell me what you think when you have played it. I have made it so that the ai in campaigns doesn't recruit this unit at all for now.
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