Recruitment

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Recruitment

Postby MagnetoRN » December 6th, 2016, 6:16 pm

Hi guys.

I'm new to the forum, so I don't know if this topic already exists, so forgive me if I'm posting on the wrong place.

I've been playing BFW for quite some time and I couldn't help but notice that the hero is basically useless. I really want to evolve my hero and put him to fight, but that will require too much effort and time and it just doesn't worth it (it will screw my time strategy). I really hope that the developers see how much a hero on the front adds to the games' fun factor. Just remember masterpiece games, like Age of Wonders, and how fun it is to fight with your hero on the main path, or even facing the enemy hero/king with your own at the gates of his castle, while recruiting other troops for lesser interesting missions.

Maybe this could become at least an option in future versions of the game, since it won't really destroy the game's mechanics or anything. It would just make the BFW even more fun, and a lot.

Thanks.
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Re: Recruitment

Postby UK1 » December 6th, 2016, 6:18 pm

MagnetoRN wrote: I couldn't help but notice that the hero is basically useless.

It really depends on the map, but I would disagree strongly for multiplayer games. I would say that my leader sees action in the majority of my games. If we include "indirect action" i.e. not fighting but threatening it becomes the overwhelming majority.
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Re: Recruitment

Postby Ravana » December 6th, 2016, 7:48 pm

I suggest you try out Soul Crystals: Leader Revival modification.
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Re: Recruitment

Postby The_Gnat » December 6th, 2016, 9:42 pm

Hi, i think that having leaders more in the action would be a good idea! In general Wesnoth is not really setup to have your leader engage the enemies but a era could be made where leaders where lvl 3 and recruits lvl 1 or 0, thereby giving leaders a large fighting advantage. Also if you want you can makes maps that force the players to be close together and therefore fighting eachother. A third option would be giving leaders lower xp making them advance faster and be more useful in combat, or making it so only your leader could kill the enemies leader.

I have not played the Leader Revival modification which ravana mentioned but that seems like another way to have leaders more involved in combat.
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Re: Recruitment

Postby MagnetoRN » December 7th, 2016, 2:22 am

UK1 wrote:
MagnetoRN wrote: I couldn't help but notice that the hero is basically useless.

It really depends on the map, but I would disagree strongly for multiplayer games. I would say that my leader sees action in the majority of my games. If we include "indirect action" i.e. not fighting but threatening it becomes the overwhelming majority.


I don't see how that would have any negative effects on the multiplayer game, since putting you hero on the front is risky and you can simply decide not to do it. Nothing would change. It would just deepen the strategy by creating more ways to play the game (threatening would still work all the same).

It's just that I get too immersed in any game that I play (even more when the game is so carefully done, like BFW). Seeing a hero like that is just like watching a version of Lord of the Rings where Aragorn stays in Gondor all the time making strategies and rarely puts his sword to use. It could be effective, but it would also be very disappointing (at least to me).

Also, I said that this could be an option, not a rule. It could be a checkbox (it would have to be checked or unchecked for everyone in multiplayer). That way everyone would be happy, right? Whoever doesn't want to play the game like that, just don't. No harm done.

Choices are always better than rules, since they make the game more flexible and reach a much greater number of interests.

Thanks!
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Re: Recruitment

Postby The_Gnat » December 7th, 2016, 3:25 am

MagnetoRN wrote:Also, I said that this could be an option, not a rule. It could be a checkbox (it would have to be checked ou unchecked for everyone in multiplayer). That way everyone would be happy, right? Whoever doesn't want to play the game like that, just don't. No harm done.

Choices are always better than rules, since they make the game more flexible and reach a much greater number of interests.

Thanks!


I agree, and through wesnoth's very easily editable code this could be a easily created addon. What exactly are you considering will happen when this option is checked? What exactly in the game play do you think should be changed? Depending on what you are considering I would be willing to help create this!
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Re: Recruitment

Postby MagnetoRN » December 7th, 2016, 4:40 am

I agree, and through wesnoth's very easily editable code this could be a easily created addon. What exactly are you considering will happen when this option is checked? What exactly in the game play do you think should be changed? Depending on what you are considering I would be willing to help create this!

The game is already very well done, so what I had in mind was:
- the possibility to recruit without the need of having you hero on the keep, so you could just use him freely on the battlefield and have fun.
- If the enemy manages to put a unit on your keep, you won't be able to recruit until you kill that unit and free your keep.
- conquer a keep and make it yours is also an idea, but just putting a unit there to prevent the enemy from recruiting is fine to me.

Changing the AI to make the computer take advantage of that would also be fun, but I believe this would be a little harder to do (though I don't see that as such a great advantage, since right now I finish all my gameplays in few rounds and without even moving my hero).

I have other ideas, but if this one works out, the game will be just perfect to me and I'll be completely satisfied.

Thanks!
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Re: Recruitment

Postby The_Gnat » December 7th, 2016, 5:23 am

MagnetoRN wrote:The game is already very well done, so what I had in mind was:
- the possibility to recruit without the need of having you hero on the keep, so you could just use him freely on the battlefield and have fun.
- If the enemy manages to put a unit on your keep, you won't be able to recruit until you kill that unit and free your keep.
- conquer a keep and make it yours is also an idea, but just putting a unit there to prevent the enemy from recruiting is fine to me.

Changing the AI to make the computer take advantage of that would also be fun, but I believe this would be a little harder to do (though I don't see that as such a great advantage, since right now I finish all my gameplays in few rounds and without even moving my hero).

I have other ideas, but if this one works out, the game will be just perfect to me and I'll be completely satisfied.

Thanks!


I like your idea! That seems like a workable idea, I will have a look at the code and see if I can create it.
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Re: Recruitment

Postby MagnetoRN » December 7th, 2016, 6:08 am

I like your idea! That seems like a workable idea, I will have a look at the code and see if I can create it.


Thank you, man! I really appreciate your effort! Tell me if it works out!
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Re: Recruitment

Postby MagnetoRN » December 7th, 2016, 6:15 am

Ravana wrote:I suggest you try out Soul Crystals: Leader Revival modification.


I've seen it, Ravana. It's a good idea, but unnecessarily complex and strange (a crystal that recruits?). Let's see if The_Gnat manages to make those changes I suggested, and how the game becomes after that.

Thanks.
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Re: Recruitment

Postby beetlenaut » December 7th, 2016, 5:34 pm

MagnetoRN wrote:I finish all my gameplays in few rounds and without even moving my hero.
I assume you are talking about multiplayer here. If this is how you play campaigns, then you're doing it wrong. Your (upgraded) leader is an essential front-line unit in those. If you're not playing campaigns, then maybe you should try some so you can play with your hero.
MagnetoRN wrote:- conquer a keep and make it yours is also an idea
You can already use any keep on the map as long as you wipe out the current occupants if there are any. Is that not what you mean?
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Re: Recruitment

Postby MagnetoRN » December 7th, 2016, 6:53 pm

I assume you are talking about multiplayer here. If this is how you play campaigns, then you're doing it wrong. Your (upgraded) leader is an essential front-line unit in those. If you're not playing campaigns, then maybe you should try some so you can play with your hero.


It's not a case of wrong or right gameplay. People play the way they want (and even so, since I win the missions with great time advantage, it's certainly a right way to play). It's actually a case of having fun evolving your hero in the front-line or getting bored unnecessarily delaying an already won match just to give him experience (boring and much better not to do it, since you can win perfectly without using him).

You can already use any keep on the map as long as you wipe out the current occupants if there are any. Is that not what you mean?


That was related to the free recruiting modification. Since you can recruit with no hero at the keep, conquer would mean that once you get there, you can leave and it will still be yours and produce your troops. I mean that even if the opponent leaves a keep, you'll still have to get there and ocupy it once, in order to make it yours, or it will continue to produce enemy units. If someone finds that unbalanced somehow, the recruitment on enemy keeps could be removed. Also, conquering could take more than one turn, depending on the size of the castle. I won't get too much into details before I know if the changes can be made. If the checkbox idea works, we play and see what enhancements it deserves.
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Re: Recruitment

Postby MagnetoRN » December 7th, 2016, 9:45 pm

I will have a look at the code and see if I can create it.


If you find it easier, man, just make the option so that any unit on a keep allows recruiting. I think that would be the least complicated way to do it and it would still be fair and make sense.
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Re: Recruitment

Postby The_Gnat » December 7th, 2016, 11:15 pm

MagnetoRN wrote:
I will have a look at the code and see if I can create it.


If you find it easier, man, just make the option so that any unit on a keep allows recruiting. I think that would be the least complicated way to do it and it would still be fair and make sense.


Yes after looking at the possibilities I believe it would be to difficult to "take" keeps and recruit from them. I have however created a mod that allows you to assign a hero. The hero can recruit, you do not lose if he dies, you may only have one hero at a time, you may unassign and reassign heros at any point on your turn by right clicking on the unit you want, if your leader dies all heros can no longer recruit (for multiplayer games with 3+ players).

This only works on multiplayer not singleplayer and everyone playing must have this modification installed to join the game. The modification appears as a check box on the right of the multiplayer menu under the eras.

(What do you think of this, suggestions and comments are welcome! )
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Re: Recruitment

Postby MagnetoRN » December 8th, 2016, 12:08 am

I have however created a mod that allows you to assign a hero. The hero can recruit, you do not lose if he dies, you may only have one hero at a time, you may unassign and reassign heros at any point on your turn by right clicking on the unit you want, if your leader dies all heros can no longer recruit (for multiplayer games with 3+ players).

What I had in mind was something so simple that could be applied to all game modes (even campaign) without really affecting the gameplay/balance of the game. The possibility to unassign and reassign heroes is cool, but that and the fact that you won't lose if your hero dies would be a little distant from the original gameplay, don't you think?

Yes after looking at the possibilities I believe it would be to difficult to "take" keeps and recruit from them.

Would it be hard to make just any unit recruit? That doesn't change the gameplay/balance of the game and maybe it's simple enough to apply to all of the game modes.

Thank you for your time and effort!
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