[mainline] Resolving some strangeness in Wesnoth

[Omega_Blue]

The strangeness is: melee and ranged combat are exactly the same, except in name.

Both are executed identically, by moving a unit of yours next to a unit of somebody else's unit. Pick either melee or ranged attack, depending on which one gives you a more favorable damage output. So, why bother? Also, taken into consideration that hexes are probably kilometers wide, and people start wondering just how long those melee weapons must be...

My idea is this. Melee combat occurs when an attacker moves *into* the defender's hex, not next to it. The results of this change is:

* The attacker must be able to move into the defender's hex, including having enough movement points left.
* If the defender is killed, the attacker moves into the hex. Otherwise, it gets bounced.
* Both the attacker and defender use the terrain modifier of the defender's hex.
* ZOC is ignored by a unit that's heading straight in to attack. In other words, a unit will be stopped by a ZOC unless it is carrying out a melee attack on the unit exerting that ZOC.

Ranged attacks remain unchanged.

This change should not require much programming, but will require significant changes in existing tactics.

[beetlenaut]

will require significant changes in existing tactics.

That's an understatement! To start with, it would require the complete rebalancing of every campaign and faction. Also, it seems to have some significant disadvantages: It would make it harder to plan your tactics. For instance, you couldn't set up a line because you wouldn't know where your own units were going to end their turn. Also, winning a battle would almost always increase the number of hexes your victorious unit could be attacked from making it often bad to win unless the dead unit had been isolated.

Pick either melee or ranged attack, depending on which one gives you a more favorable damage output. So, why bother?

Why bother? Because you have to pick the one which gives you a more favorable damage output.

There are weapon specials and abilities that use some version of your idea in some of the add-ons, but there is no chance that BfW is going to change that much at this point. Welcome to the forums though.

[ancestral]

Omega_Blue, I hear ya.

It’s good to know here that combat is simply an abstraction. You can think of engaging in combat from one hex onto the other as entering the battlefield, if you want, just like in the Total War series of games (except in Wesnoth, all battles are automatically resolved). And the melee/ranged behavior is really no different than in Civilization I through IV.

The trouble is this could radically alter balance between factions. However, the only way to know for sure is to create an add-on and test it out! I’d be eager to see the results.

[Gyra_Solune]

It used to be that melee and range were fundamentally different! But it had problems. What you are suggesting is much much like Civilization V...a game that has very significant balancing problems in archer units being overwhelmingly powerful and melee units only being useful for capturing cities.

I like the approach that is taken here, and that is making the fundamental difference between the two as melee being the 'default'. In almost every faction the cheapest and most efficient damage dealer is the melee guy, and inevitably the one who defines the faction the most. Orcs have a beefy and extraordinarily cheap grunt that defines their faction as being all about strength through numbers, Loyalists have their efficient and powerful if otherwise not noteworthy spearmen that defines their faction as being all about being meticulous and orderly, Drakes have their fast and mean fighters that defines their faction around speed and power at high expense, Dwarves have their heavy and tanky guys that defines their faction as having resilience but sluggishness and vulnerability outside of favored terrain, Elves have their modest and light fighter who has better ranged coverage than most that defines them as a little more focused on the ranged side, Undead kind of have the Skeletons but they have such obvious counters and end up outclassed by the ranged-exclusive Adept that it shifts their faction into being very very weird and unorthodox.

Or to put it another way! Almost every unit in the game has a melee attack of some kind. However, only around half to a third have a ranged attack. The relation between a faction's primary ranged and melee unit is important, typically slightly favoring the melee one. The Bowman can't do quite as much damage and is a little squishier, and that's about all the Loyalists get so they have to use their melee tools effectively. Orcish archer is nothing special aside from the fire arrows, but it lacks the bang for your buck of the grunts. Dwarves have a gunner who is a little unreliable in doing damage at all making it less effective defensively but slightly more effective offensively, while the Drakes have in fact a very very good ranged unit...who is also insanely expensive on a faction that is already bleeding money all the time. The Elvish Archer does roughly equal ranged to the fighter's melee, though it's a touch pricier, so the two work together a little more. And I already mentioned the undead situation.

So basically, in most situations it comes down to the purpose of melee units being to hold the line and take the hits since they're usually cheaper and hardier, while ranged units are there to provide an offensive counterattack to ideally take down the immediate line of enemies, so the melee guys can run in and take their place.

Also don't think of it as 'people are fighting with their spears at the exact distance people are fighting with their bows', think of it as the two meeting in the middle to clash together while ranged people keep distance between them.

[nuorc]

The Bowman can't do quite as much damage and is a little squishier, and that's about all the Loyalists get

Loyalists and Elves have mages, which you totally left out.

[Gyra_Solune]

The Bowman can't do quite as much damage and is a little squishier, and that's about all the Loyalists get

Loyalists and Elves have mages, which you totally left out.

Mages are sort of a weird specialist unit that's more valuable for having magical and fire than it is for its actual offensive power, which is equal to the Bowman for almost 50% more gold, and lower than the Elvish Archer except just barely during the daytime, unless the Archer is dextrous (which is of course a highly desirable trait) in which it's outright less powerful at all times. It's a unit to be brought out sparingly and requires a lot more protection and care than what one would consider to be the more standard ranged unit of a faction.