What do YOU want to see improved?

Brainstorm ideas of possible additions to the game. Read this before posting!

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What aspects of the game would you most like to see improved?

Mainline campaign quality (means both improving the writing and improving the WML scripting)
9
8%
Graphics and animation speed and smoothness (means transitioning to hardware accelerated graphics)
6
5%
3D graphics
1
1%
Quality of mainline sprites and animations (means making new animations / replacing weak sprites)
9
8%
Quality of terrain graphics (means both the content and terrain graphics system)
2
2%
Sound and Music (means both quality of the content and quality of the playback system)
1
1%
Quality of the AI
17
14%
Quality of the GUI (means fixing bugs related to the UI, also introducing fancier / better user interface elements both in-game and out-of-game)
22
18%
Improved support for touch screens and joysticks
0
No votes
Quality of the addon server system (means, introducing a rating system or a recommender system based on likes. For UI select earlier option)
8
7%
General reliability and stability of the program (means rewriting parts of the program to make them more rigorous and avoid crashes, and improve testing)
8
7%
Improved data structures for game content (means trying to improve the loading times of the game esp. when you have lots of content)
8
7%
Improved networking code (means trying to improve the performance of the game in mp when connections are spotty, also server improvements)
6
5%
Improvements to WML / lua API (means adding more language features)
18
15%
Improvements to balance of mainline MP eras
5
4%
 
Total votes: 120

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darkeye28
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Re: What do YOU want to see improved?

Post by darkeye28 »

Not that I think the game is unbalanced, but the most balanced it is better, also a better AI would be nice.
I also like the new editor features , like the unit tool, it make your life easier, so I want more of that.
Why are you reading this? Are you stupid? There is nothing to see here, stop reading this now! Or I will... Anyway, do you like One Piece?
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Eagle_11
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Re: What do YOU want to see improved?

Post by Eagle_11 »

Missing obvious option:
Tweak the rng.
:p
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doofus-01
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Re: What do YOU want to see improved?

Post by doofus-01 »

Eagle_11 wrote:Missing obvious option:
Tweak the rng.
:p
That's covered under making Wesnoth 3D.
BfW 1.12 supported, but active development only for BfW 1.13/1.14: Bad Moon Rising | Trinity | Archaic Era |
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects
Kinrany
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Re: What do YOU want to see improved?

Post by Kinrany »

Implementor37 wrote:For wml improvements, the only thing id really like to see is increased functionality in the editor. While I personally enjoyutting the code together with the Wesnoth UMC Dev (eclipse.wesnoth.org), it is my belief that there are many potential UMC creators out there who are scared by the idea of needing to learn wml. Allowing the editor to create even just simple events such as moveto, enemies defeated, and attack and use the [message] tag would IMHO drastically increase the number of UMC campaigns as those who enjoy creating maps but not code would be able to create campaigns with much more ease. The current editor is starting to get there, but could use some improvement.
Just registered to second this. All the WML stuff is just too confusing when you are trying to create something as simple as a new unit.
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Implementor37
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Re: What do YOU want to see improved?

Post by Implementor37 »

All the WML stuf is just too confusing when you are trying to create something as simple as a new unit.
On this note, i just found the thread for the WesWorkshop Unit Editor under the "Coder's Corner" thread. Perhaps there should be a way for this (and other) development tools (including the Wesnoth UMC Dev) to be downloadable from the add-ons server, and executable through the main wesnoth application (Launch <devToolName> button or something), or even implemented into the existing official Wesnoth editor. I didn't vote for add-on server improvements, but the more i think about it this seems like it would be a good idea...Any thought?
Author of End of the Legion, available now on the 1.12 and 1.13 servers!
Supporter of the addition of the Aragwaithi into mainline.
Anonymissimus
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Re: What do YOU want to see improved?

Post by Anonymissimus »

If it becomes too easy to create addons, it leads to bad addons. Not neccessarily of course, but still. This could be witnessed back then when campgen had been working. During all that time one needs to learn wml, a lot of thinking and ideas goes on in the creator's mind, and all is packed into the addon. It's a bad idea to enhance the editor too much.
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign
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Ravana
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Re: What do YOU want to see improved?

Post by Ravana »

I feel some addon types are way more difficult to create than others. I agree that new unit types are quite complicated to set up correctly. Even now I am unable to create era template from scratch.

I would say that modification is easiest to make, little more than events needed there. Next level would be scenario, usually there is more content in them. However real era as in with new unit type, is most complicated. Wants [binary_path], +tag, and is spread across more files.

Most of wml is documented quite nicely so unless you want to try more interesting ways, learning wml is quite straightforward.
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iceiceice
Developer
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Re: What do YOU want to see improved?

Post by iceiceice »

Anonymissimus wrote:If it becomes too easy to create addons, it leads to bad addons... It's a bad idea to enhance the editor too much.
I don't agree with this. If it becomes easier to create addons, it will mean that the people who are good at it will be able to create more of them, and will be able to maintain them more easily. And have fewer of those "GAH I want to kill someone with a spoon" programming moments.

If there is a problem with many bad add-ons, imo it should be fixed with an add-on server rating / recommender system, not by making WML needlessly difficult.
uncleshelby
Posts: 427
Joined: May 10th, 2011, 7:20 pm

Re: What do YOU want to see improved?

Post by uncleshelby »

I voted for the improving the UI and mainline campaign quality. I'm regretting the mainline campaign vote a little bit, just because I think there are more important things to improve, like the AI. Anyway, about the UI and GUI. I don't think there's anything terribly wrong with the UI, but it definitely could be streamlined. I think it could use more customizability (click and drag windows, scenario-specific buttons, etc.) and be better at displaying some information with less clicks.

I enjoy working on design, so I've started looking into ways the UI could be improved. Not making much progress, but I don't have a lot of experience or time. And I'd like more input on what a redesign could benefit from. What problems y'all have noticed, what features you'd like, etc.

I don't know if that's what the community wants or needs, but I'm partly doing it for my own practice.
Timshel
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doofus-01
Art Director
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Re: What do YOU want to see improved?

Post by doofus-01 »

iceiceice wrote: ...
If there is a problem with many bad add-ons, imo it should be fixed with an add-on server rating / recommender system, not by making WML needlessly difficult.
Good thing no one proposed making WML needlessly difficult then.
BfW 1.12 supported, but active development only for BfW 1.13/1.14: Bad Moon Rising | Trinity | Archaic Era |
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects
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Implementor37
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Re: What do YOU want to see improved?

Post by Implementor37 »

I agree with iceiceice. Currently when I write a scenario i have to have at least 3 programs running: wesnoth with the map editor (so i can see my scenarios map and hex coordinates), Google Chrome (8 tabs of WML documentation--everything from lists of possible events to [ai] tags), and the Wesnoth UMC Dev from eclipse.wesnoth.org in order to actually write the WML for the scenario. I believe that with a little bit of enhancement the editor could take over the job of all 3 programs (except for the more-complex WML documention, of course).

Here is a list of what i would like to see in the editor:
1. Additional features to do things such as an 'add event' button (GUI for event creation), with a drop-box containing all the possible events in your version of wesnoth (attack, moveto, sighted, die, custom, etc.), which when selected create an event in WML of the selected type with the required parameters ([filter] tags, id=, etc.) commented off in WML. This would save a ton of time in looking up the required keys for every event i write, and for maintainers.
2. A window displaying the WML of the scenario. This would need to be editable, and would enable changes to events created by 'add event' In addition, authors would still be able to see the WML, enabling them to learn WML more easily, which is beneficial when it comes to more complex scenarios. Simply embedding a text-file reader (such as the ultra-basic Notepad) if the interface of Wesnoth-UMC-Dev is too large to support would drastically improve campaign/scenario creation and maintenance , especially if the editor could run wmllint.
3. If people enjoy and use suggested features 1 & 2, increase support to include features such as unit/faction/era editors, etc.
4. Some documentation within the editor itself--it would be nice not to need those 8 open tabs...:P

I do not believe that easy-creation of addons will necessarily lead to bad add-ons. It will simply lead to more addons--both good and bad.
Author of End of the Legion, available now on the 1.12 and 1.13 servers!
Supporter of the addition of the Aragwaithi into mainline.
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max_torch
Posts: 356
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Re: What do YOU want to see improved?

Post by max_torch »

Honestly I'm really looking forward to enjoying the mainline MP campaigns feature once it's fixed.
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Xudo
Posts: 561
Joined: April 3rd, 2009, 5:26 pm

Re: What do YOU want to see improved?

Post by Xudo »

During all that time one needs to learn wml, a lot of thinking and ideas goes on in the creator's mind, and all is packed into the addon. It's a bad idea to enhance the editor too much.
Spending a lot of time needed to workaround whole bunch of little issues with WML eventually leads to abandoning of good projects.
Implementor37 wrote:2. A window displaying the WML of the scenario. This would need to be editable, and would enable changes to events created by 'add event' In addition, authors would still be able to see the WML, enabling them to learn WML more easily, which is beneficial when it comes to more complex scenarios. Simply embedding a text-file reader (such as the ultra-basic Notepad) if the interface of Wesnoth-UMC-Dev is too large to support would drastically improve campaign/scenario creation and maintenance , especially if the editor could run wmllint
Embedding text editor will overcomplicate the game.
Eclipse and Wesnoth UMC editor are designed to write WML. If you need features to edit WML as text, then you need to improve them. It is very common situation that you need to open browser+app+editor at once when you write a code. No need to reinvite a wheel.

Though it is good idea to allow Wesnoth editor to create events and perform simple actions.

I see it in the following way:
original language:
Scenario editor shoud be represented as block designer without connection to real meaning of blocks.
Block can contain properties and other blocks.
Here is the basic scheme of user interface:
+--------------------------------
| SCENARIO_BLOCK - This is block for scenario
| NAME = "My first scenario"
| +--------------
| | PLAYER_SIDE_BLOCK - This is block for player side
| | SIDE = 1
| +--------------
| +--------------
| | AI_SIDE_BLOCK - This is block for ai side
| | SIDE = 2
| +--------------
| +--------------
| | <add block>
| +--------------
+--------------------------------

In the beginning, user will be able to choose one of the top-level blocks, asociated with: muliplayer, scenario, modification.
Block "<add block>" is a button. On click, list of allowed blocks will be shown. User will be able to choose block from the list. This block will be added to parent block (SCENARIO_BLOCK in this case)

Block structure shown in example, will be equal to this code:
File: utils.cfg

Code: Select all

#define SCENARIO_BLOCK NAME WML
[scenario]
    name = {NAME}
    experience_modifier = 100
    {SML}
[/scenario]
#enddef
#define AI_SIDE_BLOCK SIDE
[side]
    side = {SIDE}
    controller = "ai"
    [ai]
         #here should be 3 pages of ai tuning
    [/ai]
[/side]
#enddef
#define PLAYER_SIDE_BLOCK SIDE
[side]
    side = {SIDE}
    controller = "human"
[/side]
#enddef
Файл: FirstScenario.cfg

Code: Select all

{SCENARIO_BLOCK "My first scenario" (
    {PLAYER_SIDE_BLOCK 1}
    {AI_SIDE_BLOCK 2}
)}
You should notice that blocks are associated with macroses, not with WML tags. This is main point of this idea.
In most cases, content of tags is similar. This way, it is easier to hide the concrete implementation from user.
Look at AI_SIDE_BLOCK. It incapsulates details of ai tuning.
So you can describe any complex WML in macroses and then use macroses to design your campaigns in visual editor.

This editor will be useful not only to beginners, but for advanced developers too.

Though it can be standalone tool.
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Elvish_Hunter
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Re: What do YOU want to see improved?

Post by Elvish_Hunter »

Kinrany wrote:All the WML stuff is just too confusing when you are trying to create something as simple as a new unit.
What's your experience with other programming languages? If it's "none", then of course you feel confused. Everyone is confused when learning his first programming language... Take your time and don't rush learning it! :)
Implementor37 wrote:Perhaps there should be a way for this (and other) development tools (including the Wesnoth UMC Dev) to be downloadable from the add-ons server
WesWorkshop is a Java application, and as such it cannot work inside Wesnoth. Also, it's true that our add-ons rules don't explicitly forbid uploading binary or executable files, but it's just because it never happened so far. Perhaps we should rectify this before someone starts exploiting it.
Anonymissimus wrote:If it becomes too easy to create addons, it leads to bad addons. Not neccessarily of course, but still. This could be witnessed back then when campgen had been working.
Agreed. By requiring users to learn WML (that, compared to many other programming languages, is easy), we implicitly require that the user likes his idea enough to make a little effort learning it. If someone wants to see what disasters CampGen led to, the old 1.2 add-ons server should still contain some.
Granted, back then the WML was less powerful, but that was no excuse to make a bad story. :(
iceiceice wrote:If there is a problem with many bad add-ons, imo it should be fixed with an add-on server rating / recommender system, not by making WML needlessly difficult.
With a rating system we'll probably end up seeing a lot of exchange voting going on (even in ways that we cannot control): "I'll upvote your add-on if you upvote mine". I remember this happening on a forum where they implemented a reputation system, and it ended so badly that they were forced to remove it. :(
doofus-01 wrote:Good thing no one proposed making WML needlessly difficult then.
Don't worry, we're still in time for that :twisted: :lol:
Implementor37 wrote:Currently when I write a scenario i have to have at least 3 programs running: wesnoth with the map editor (so i can see my scenarios map and hex coordinates), Google Chrome (8 tabs of WML documentation--everything from lists of possible events to [ai] tags), and the Wesnoth UMC Dev from eclipse.wesnoth.org in order to actually write the WML for the scenario.
That's what happens with pretty much every language. For example, when writing a web page, one usually has three things open: a text editor, some HTML/CSS/JS documentation and a web browser to test the page. Granted, the other languages don't need a map editor...
Implementor37 wrote: which when selected create an event in WML of the selected type with the required parameters ([filter] tags, id=, etc.) commented off in WML
The point is that none of these parameters are actually required (except for the name= key).
Implementor37 wrote:A window displaying the WML of the scenario. This would need to be editable
Problem: after each WML modification, you still need to go back to the starting screen and hit F5 to reload it and make it effective.
Xudo wrote:Spending a lot of time needed to workaround whole bunch of little issues with WML eventually leads to abandoning of good projects.
An example of these little issues with WML? I suspect that, at least in some situations, these may be bugs that need to be fixed, not things that need to be worked around and masked with a visual editor.
Current maintainer of these add-ons:
1.14: The Sojournings of Grog, A Rough Life, The White Troll (co-author), Wesnoth Lua Pack
1.12: Children of Dragons
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Xudo
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Re: What do YOU want to see improved?

Post by Xudo »

Elvish_Hunter wrote:I suspect that, at least in some situations, these may be bugs that need to be fixed, not things that need to be worked around and masked with a visual editor.

My idea is not about it. Tell me which parts of description should be rewrited to make it clear to you.
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