Units Stat Summaries

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Bobit
Posts: 25
Joined: February 10th, 2015, 2:42 pm

Units Stat Summaries

Post by Bobit » February 24th, 2015, 11:30 pm

Hi everyone. I used to play a game similar to Wesnoth called "Armies of Gielinor". At first when I started playing Wesnoth, I was really disappointed at how difficult it was to tell the difference between a bowman and an elvish archer. I mean, common sense says elvish archers are stronger, but they seemed to be basically the same. In armies of Gielinor units were much easier to figure out, because the only defining features they really had were cost, class(which determined what they were "super-effective" against), mp, and special ability. Especially in multiplayer, where your opponent's side of the map is typically symmetrical, it can be a real pain to try and figure out the difference in stats between a bowman and an elvish archer, but if you can figure it out it can have almost as big of an impact as good terrain. Here's what I propose, and I would like for you to review its usefulness as UMC content:

-Each unit should have a stat summary. Examples at the bottom of the post.
-Comparisons are made between similar units, i.e. lvl 1 archers, level 0 units, level 2 healers
-You can right-click a unit and select "Unit Comparison" below Unit Description to show this window (or this can just be on a forum thread if it's more convenient)
-Racial differences, like "dwarves are slow", weapon specials, and abilities are not noted. It is assumed that you already know this if you're wondering about the details. Perhaps there could be a comparison for each race that shows the differences between them as well, but not yet.

Example:

LVL 1 ARCHERS

Poacher : +xp, -melee weapon, -ranged weapon (+swamps/fungus/forest defense)

Orcish : -melee weapon, +xp, (+has fire and pierce bow)

Skeleton : -melee weapon

Bowman : -xp

Orcish Assassin: -hp, -cost, (-poison can't kill, +6 MP, ++ranged weapon if poison not cured for more than 1 turn (poison is considered here as it's possible to calculate))

Elvish : -Cost, -health, -xp, +melee weapon. +ranged weapon,, (+notable advancements,+6 MP)

Thunderguard : -Cost, -xp, +melee weapon, (+gun shoots all at once)

Burner: --Cost, -xp, ++melee weapon, ++ranged weapon, ++health

Telcontar
Posts: 56
Joined: April 4th, 2013, 1:55 am

Re: Units Stat Summaries

Post by Telcontar » February 26th, 2015, 4:19 am

Bobit wrote:Hi everyone. I used to play a game similar to Wesnoth called "Armies of Gielinor". At first when I started playing Wesnoth, I was really disappointed at how difficult it was to tell the difference between a bowman and an elvish archer.

...

Here's what I propose, and I would like for you to review its usefulness as UMC content:

-Each unit should have a stat summary. Examples at the bottom of the post.
-Comparisons are made between similar units, i.e. lvl 1 archers, level 0 units, level 2 healers
-You can right-click a unit and select "Unit Comparison" below Unit Description to show this window (or this can just be on a forum thread if it's more convenient)
-Racial differences, like "dwarves are slow", weapon specials, and abilities are not noted. It is assumed that you already know this if you're wondering about the details. Perhaps there could be a comparison for each race that shows the differences between them as well, but not yet.

Example:

LVL 1 ARCHERS

Poacher : +xp, -melee weapon, -ranged weapon (+swamps/fungus/forest defense)

Orcish : -melee weapon, +xp, (+has fire and pierce bow)

Skeleton : -melee weapon

Bowman : -xp

Orcish Assassin: -hp, -cost, (-poison can't kill, +6 MP, ++ranged weapon if poison not cured for more than 1 turn (poison is considered here as it's possible to calculate))

Elvish : -Cost, -health, -xp, +melee weapon. +ranged weapon,, (+notable advancements,+6 MP)

Thunderguard : -Cost, -xp, +melee weapon, (+gun shoots all at once)

Burner: --Cost, -xp, ++melee weapon, ++ranged weapon, ++health
I think having a GUI/help option where you can compare units side by side would be useful. Veteran players already know the details but for novices the number of different units is definitely overwhelming.

It is difficult to determine (as per your example) who to classify as "archers". Any unit with a range pierce attack? That would exclude the Drake Burner. If you include any ranged attacks, you would have to include Mages, Dark Adepts, etc., making the list very long.

Also, some points are hard to classify as just pros or cons. The fact that the Thunderguard has one shot can be good (instant kill possibility against units with less than 18 HP) or bad (low kill probability against a unit with just 1 or 2 HP left, which OTOH an Orcish Assassin almost certainly kills).

Bobit
Posts: 25
Joined: February 10th, 2015, 2:42 pm

Re: Units Stat Summaries

Post by Bobit » February 26th, 2015, 5:31 am

Telcontar wrote:
I think having a GUI/help option where you can compare units side by side would be useful. Veteran players already know the details but for novices the number of different units is definitely overwhelming.

It is difficult to determine (as per your example) who to classify as "archers". Any unit with a range pierce attack? That would exclude the Drake Burner. If you include any ranged attacks, you would have to include Mages, Dark Adepts, etc., making the list very long.

Also, some points are hard to classify as just pros or cons. The fact that the Thunderguard has one shot can be good (instant kill possibility against units with less than 18 HP) or bad (low kill probability against a unit with just 1 or 2 HP left, which OTOH an Orcish Assassin almost certainly kills).
I'm a novice, so that's why I'm considering making this ;)


The classification for archers is a little difficult. Personally I think the mages shouldn't be included with the reasoning that they all have extremely low health and magical attacks, and thus serve a pretty different role. Burners are included because they're still very much like an archer.


Some points are pros and cons, sure, but the ones that it pretty much balances out on I just left out. The example you chose about the tunderguard isn't that great though, I think. Let's take a look at the pros and cons of it, starting with the ones you stated:


+High chance to kill ~18 health units
-Low chance to kill ~6 health units

Overall, I think these pretty much cancel each other out; one is probably better than the other, but not by as much as, say, the difference between a first-strike and non-first-strike unit. Also, if I did mention that, I would have to mention it for the units that attack 4x as well, which seems a waste. There are two more pros though:

+Much easier to plan tactically around (i.e. "If he misses, I'll send this guy" instead of "If he misses once, I'll send this guy; if not, I'll send that guy. Oh, and I should make sure all those guys are close enough to help when I move out.")
+If it's going to kill the enemy, it does so before they can get most of their attacks off. (I think this is very strong. It's definitely noteworthy if first strike or 5 hp is noteworthy)


Altogether, I'm pretty sure this should be counted as a pro.

Bobit
Posts: 25
Joined: February 10th, 2015, 2:42 pm

Re: Units Stat Summaries

Post by Bobit » March 2nd, 2015, 2:49 am

There seems to b ea little interest in this, so I'm going to make a document that has unit stat summaries, but not put it into the game via wml. I'll post here once a lot of work is done on it.

Also, I'm starting to think that short info should be included on abilities.

Click Below to see the unit stat summaries

http://notepad.cc/share/syzPjxPZ6f

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ancestral
Developer
Posts: 1108
Joined: August 1st, 2006, 5:29 am
Location: Motion City

Re: Units Stat Summaries

Post by ancestral » March 2nd, 2015, 4:26 am

Hmm. This would be the kind of thing that might be nice to incorporate (somehow) into the unofficial Wesnoth Bestiary.
Wesnoth BestiaryPREVIEW IT HERE )
Unit tree and stat browser
CanvasPREVIEW IT HERE )
Exp. map viewer

Bobit
Posts: 25
Joined: February 10th, 2015, 2:42 pm

Re: Units Stat Summaries

Post by Bobit » March 2nd, 2015, 4:40 am

ancestral wrote:Hmm. This would be the kind of thing that might be nice to incorporate (somehow) into the unofficial Wesnoth Bestiary.
No offense, but I've never understood what the purpose of the wesnoth bestiary was when there is this:
http://units.wesnoth.org/1.12/mainline/ ... nline.html

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Elvish_King
Posts: 131
Joined: December 22nd, 2014, 12:52 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Units Stat Summaries

Post by Elvish_King » March 2nd, 2015, 3:23 pm

Bobit wrote:Also, I'm starting to think that short info should be included on abilities.Click Below to see the unit stat summaries
I like what you did but I found one error: In the Archer-segmentit has to be "Skeleton Archer" instead of "Skeleton".
Visit my threads:
Era:Era of more units
Artwork:Art

Bobit
Posts: 25
Joined: February 10th, 2015, 2:42 pm

Re: Units Stat Summaries

Post by Bobit » March 3rd, 2015, 12:00 am

Elvish_King wrote:
Bobit wrote:Also, I'm starting to think that short info should be included on abilities.Click Below to see the unit stat summaries
I like what you did but I found one error: In the Archer-segmentit has to be "Skeleton Archer" instead of "Skeleton".
Thx

Bobit
Posts: 25
Joined: February 10th, 2015, 2:42 pm

Re: Units Stat Summaries

Post by Bobit » March 3rd, 2015, 2:30 am

Alright, I've got every default multiplayer unit on there except for units that advance from others. I intend to keep it there.

The categories are (in order of priority; if one unit was a fast water unit, it would be counted as a water unit):
WATER UNITS -self-explanatory
FAST UNITS -ditto
MAGES -...
ARCHERS -.......
GUARDIANS -Units that are generally better at defending than attacking
SKIRMISHERS -................
FIGHTERS-Anything left over (usually have high melee damage)

So, does anyone want to argue one of the statistics? Also, should I post this in another forum since it's not just an idea anymore?

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