[mainline] Executioner unit

[Silty]

This is a proposed level 3 unit for the Loyalist Heavy Infantry line. Dwarven Thunderers provide interesting gameplay due to only attacking once instead of multiple times, and it's a shame that there's no such melee unit in the mainline era.


Executioner
During times of peace, as the lands of the humans host races of much greater stature and constitution, it is only natural that there will be criminals from these races. The strongest of men are chosen to serve as executioners of these criminals, wielding gigantic axes that are guaranteed to carry out their job cleanly and reliably, whether it be the neck of a troll or an ogre. Though often impractical in actual combat situations due to the weight of the axe, it is a different story when facing a foe of titanic size.


Information
Cost: 48
HP: 68
Movement: 5
XP: 150
Level: 3
Alignment: lawful
ID: Executioner


Attacks
Axe melee 46-1 blade


Resistances
Blade 0%
Pierce 0%
Impact 0%
Fire 0%
Cold 0%
Arcane 20%


Terrain, Movement Cost, Defense
Castle, 1, 60%
Cave, 2, 40%
Coastal Reef, 2, 30%
Deep Water, -, 0%
Flat, 1, 40%
Forest, 2, 50%
Frozen, 3, 20%
Hills, 2, 50%
Mountains, 3, 60%
Mushroom Grove, 2, 50%
Sand, 2, 30%
Shallow Water, 3, 20%
Swamp, 3, 20%
Unwalkable, -, 0%
Village, 1, 60%

[Dugi]

You can write a unit file from it (see an older one to learn how to do it), and then make a folder in your add-ons directory and place inside a file named _main.cfg containing this:

Code: Select all

[+units]
[unit_type]
id=Executioner
name= _ Executioner
[advancefrom]
  unit=Shock Trooper
[/advancefrom]

# the rest of the unit_type of the executioner will go here.

[unit_type]
[/units]

Then you will have it available in all campaigns you play, and if you will like this unit, make an add-on from it. If it will be popular, it may become a part of the core.

[Silty]

Then you will have it available in all campaigns you play, and if you will like this unit, make an add-on from it. If it will be popular, it may become a part of the core.

Thank you for the idea, I didn't think of that. Next time, I'll change Wesnoth myself, and only post after I've played with it for a bit.

Do you have any feedback about the balance of the unit? I'm not the best player around, so I am eagerly awaiting criticism from the better players around here, who have a better perspective.

[Dugi]

I think that his stats are okay, he has worse defences (regarding resistances) than a dragonguard, so it should be okay that he has more damage, and compared to Iron Mauler, he does less damage, but has an advantage. His presence would not be a superb advantage of loyalists because Iron Mauler is already a unit that can kill before taking too much retaliation damage.

I am okay with that unit.

[sur.nhm]

I'd like to notice that units aren't accepted into mainline without a very good reason - see FPI no. 20.

[Telchin]

I'd like to notice that units aren't accepted into mainline without a very good reason - see FPI no. 20.

On the other hand, tha last stable version added the Ghast and while I'm not opposed to new undead units (as I like playing Undead) I didn't see the need for this unit as the Ghoul line's purpose is poisoning (which doesn't scale with level) and Necrophage already had pseudo-level up with feeding. That said I don't play multiplayer, so my ideas on adding new units to it are baseless.

[Silty]

I'd like to notice that units aren't accepted into mainline without a very good reason - see FPI no. 20.

Well, it didn't say not to post any new unit ideas at all, merely that they should be "well reasoned":

Units are being worked on, although the developers do try to somewhat carefully vet units that are added to the game. The game has well over one hundred types of units, so it cannot be considered to only have a few units. People are welcome to submit ideas for specific types of new units. Ideas that have graphics are more likely to succeed. Adding units to balanced factions is no small matter, and so all such proposals must be well reasoned.

So I decided to give it a shot. But dugi is right, I should have also tested it on my own, rather than merely thinking it through. Sorry.

[enchilado]

Disregarding the way the introduction of such a unit would affect the balance of MP factions (I don't know enough about that to comment), I'd say that IMO the HI line isn't really the most suitable place for something like this—it differs quite considerably from those units in both general style of the stats and in the theme of it story-wise. It's not exactly a case of RiPLiB because the player could still select the Iron Mauler if they wished to, I suppose, but if a unit's going to have to lose all its resistances and half its attacks when placed in a certain line, why put it there?—especially when it's unlikely anyway that a powerful and experienced soldier is going to be removed from duty to become an executioner.

[Silty]

Disregarding the way the introduction of such a unit would affect the balance of MP factions (I don't know enough about that to comment), I'd say that IMO the HI line isn't really the most suitable place for something like this—it differs quite considerably from those units in both general style of the stats and in the theme of it story-wise. It's not exactly a case of RiPLiB because the player could still select the Iron Mauler if they wished to, I suppose, but if a unit's going to have to lose all its resistances and half its attacks when placed in a certain line, why put it there?—especially when it's unlikely anyway that a powerful and experienced soldier is going to be removed from duty to become an executioner.

The idea was that people of unusual strength were to be recruited for the task - where else to find them, if not the Heavy Infantrymen? I mean, usually, you'd take the aptitudes of the individual into account when determining their progression, rather than their equipment or "style", right? To me, it seems no more unusual than a spearman suddenly taking up a sword instead of using similar weapons like pikes. Perhaps I went too far, though.

Thanks for the criticism!

[Pokonic]

It could be a viable campaign unit, however. For instance, you must fight a dragon and you have a chance to rescue one of these guys right before you venture into it's cave. It's balanced enough that I could see it alongside tuskers and such units that are rarly seen in mainline but are useful for those making there own things.

[Thrawn]

Welcome to the forums, and thank you for showing that you've read the FPI threads! I have to say that while it's true most unit suggestions don't make it into main-line, I really like the flavor of this unit (though as others pointed out, it seems like it would be much more logical as an alternative upgrade for another line, like perhaps the Pikeman/Halbadier line) and think that it wouldn't hurt to follow dugi's suggestion. IF you wanted the greater than average strength to stay in the flavor of the character, you can always make the upgrade only available when you have a strong, resilient spearman (I'm pretty sure).

As to Pokonic's comment, if you wanted to work the character into a campaign, you have much more freedom in making custom units in a campaign, because it won't affect any mainline balance (though most of the time units never live to lvl 3 in mp anyways, which is why it's okay that the ghast exists in mainline now XD)

[Shinobody]

Idea: give him a two-handed sword instead of giant axe (medieval executioners used both), and make him level 3 for swordsman (as attack-oriented alternative for Royal Guard). It will definitely feel more natural than making him HI levelup (he has nothing in common with that line - no armor, relatively low HP, blade damage...)
Actually, his stats make more sense this way. Obviously, 64 max damage (executioner) to Royal Guard's max 44 may seem like a big difference, but RG has got 4 strikes, while Executioner gambles everything on just one. Together with lower HP makes Executioner rather powerful and interesting unit, but very luck dependent.
Also, I think giving him First Strike might improve his chances when defending, and make for even more interesting unit (flavor justification being his weapon is, well, long - so it can reach further).

[Dutys_Fist]

Idea: give him a two-handed sword instead of giant axe (medieval executioners used both), and make him level 3 for swordsman (as attack-oriented alternative for Royal Guard). It will definitely feel more natural than making him HI levelup (he has nothing in common with that line - no armor, relatively low HP, blade damage...)

I agree with this

Actually, his stats make more sense this way. Obviously, 64 max damage (executioner) to Royal Guard's max 44 may seem like a big difference, but RG has got 4 strikes, while Executioner gambles everything on just one. Together with lower HP makes Executioner rather powerful and interesting unit, but very luck dependent.

64 max damage? I got 58 during daylight as maximum damage, and 46 during dawn/dusk. 2 additional damage isn't much. I also believe that RoyGuard gets 56 damage during day (+more if he has strong). I actually think that the executioner needs to do a little more damage now...

Also, I think giving him First Strike might improve his chances when defending, and make for even more interesting unit (flavor justification being his weapon is, well, long - so it can reach further).

Even when defending though, without first strike he can kill most low-level units in a single blow. If he gets first strike, mightn't that make him slightly overpowered if he stands on a nice hex where enemies cannot attack him on other high defense areas? They possibly get one attack, then he kills them.

I'm slightly curious as to why his movement is 5. It seems like the executioner takes most def, mov stats from the Spearman line, but I am curious why his movement is lower than a royal guard. He seems to therefore be somewhat weaker than a royal guard. He has only slightly better damage, lower hp, lower movement than the royal guard, and same defenses and mov rates, and less resistances.

Don't get me wrong-- I love the idea of the executioner. Do you intend to change it from a shock trooper upgrade to a swordsman upgrade? I agree with the above posters in that his upgrade path seems more in line with swordsmen line.

And finally, I think that my one complaint with this unit is that the Royal Guard, a lvl 3 of the same faction (granted, currently of a different line, but might change) seems superior in every way. I think you need to think about what do you want the executioner to do, and then distinguish him from the royal guard by changing him to fit your vision of the unit.