Stealth overlay

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Boldek
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Stealth overlay

Post by Boldek »

Okay, generally all my ideas aren't very clever, but I came up with something I think could actually benefit wesnoth this time. (don't they all?) Any way, I haven't downloaded the 1.10 series just yet, so if this is already implemented, I suppose I am just wasting your time, but my idea is to create a stealth overlay for the map editor. The editor (in 1.9 methinks) has a castle overlay, impassible overlay, and I think there is now a village overlay. So why not a concealed overlay? An overlay that would conceal the unit whether it has any magic abilities or not? I have no clue how the ai will respond to this, but my hope is that you could create 'hidden' areas on a map that could enhance the gameplay for campaigns, such as the crossroads in HttT. (maybe it would be better for rpgs and stuff, but I'm sure that some mp map makers might find this helpful)
So devs, how does it sound?
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Pentarctagon
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Re: Stealth overlay

Post by Pentarctagon »

IIRC the AI just ignores stealth, so nothing about that would change.
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Sapient
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Re: Stealth overlay

Post by Sapient »

It sounds interesting from a gameplay perspective, but how would it look? A stealth-granting terrain needs a visual indication that is clear and makes sense. Maybe like a darkness overlay.
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zookeeper
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Re: Stealth overlay

Post by zookeeper »

I can't really think of much use for that. Wherever you'd use that, it wouldn't be much more work to just give the units a [hides] ability on those locations. Also the feature would be crippled from the get-go anyway since you couldn't use it on multi-layer terrains, meaning that you might have to also use a [hides] workaround in any case.

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taptap
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Re: Stealth overlay

Post by taptap »

Pentarctagon wrote:IIRC the AI just ignores stealth, so nothing about that would change.
From playing experience this is simply wrong, units in ambush / submerge / nightstalk etc. are virtually non-existent for the AI (during movement), as everyone who assassinated AI leaders with rangers can testify. Unlike a human opponent who may guess and search possible positions the AI completely ignores units as soon as they are in hiding. It just doesn't work if you try to hide in the direction the AI would be walking anyway.

I like the idea. A stealth-terrain instead of a stealth-unit would be a very nice feature in campaigns or can work even on a MP map. In campaigns it doesn't necessarily need any default-graphical effects, it can be a simple house where the hero can go into hiding while his army is slaughtered (as happens so often).
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Iris
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Re: Stealth overlay

Post by Iris »

20:04:02 <shadowm> Crab_: does the AI ignore hidden (ambush, nightstalk, submerge) units, or it sees them?
20:04:48 <Crab_> shadowm: it takes them into account sometimes, but it would not move closer to them if they're hidden in move_to_targets phase.
20:10:30 <shadowm> Crab_: it does however ignore (see through) fog and shroud, right?
20:12:17 <Crab_> shadowm: yes
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MetalKing
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Re: Stealth overlay

Post by MetalKing »

My Problem with Stealth-Overlay to understand some about its Causes: There shall be something causes Stealth. Is it Fog? Is it a Hologram as Illusion? Simply a Field sucking the Unit's Appearance is something i rate to be ultra-SF. Can you tell what that Field would represent in RL or simulate? My Idea about it shall represent covering Terrain seems to get discussed in another Thread.
Regards, MK

*edit*
I guess I got the Point. It shall represent a generic (->Overlay) TerrainType e.g. a Building and the Unit inside is not visible from outside. As there is still no Mechanism for Coverage of Terrain I guess my Idea is about a credible Framework for and that Stealth-Overlay a special Application for Overlays. I will cont Discussion about in the other Thread.
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Caphriel
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Re: Stealth overlay

Post by Caphriel »

Foxholes that the unit(s) can hide in? A canyon that cannot be seen into except by units on the edges? The ruins of an old building/city/whathaveyou (HAPMA) that provides visual cover?

There doesn't have to be a single explanation. All that is needed is the ability to designate a single hex as "Cannot be seen into." Providing lore justification is the responsibility of the scenario/campaign writer who uses it.

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zookeeper
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Re: Stealth overlay

Post by zookeeper »

Considering that almost everything has a maintenance cost, it doesn't make much sense to add non-trivial code features (which, in this case, would likely be "very complicated") to make it easier for a few UMC to do something. This particular idea can already be done and it's not even difficult.

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