[mainline]Are Mudcrawlers elementals?

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Telchin
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[mainline]Are Mudcrawlers elementals?

Post by Telchin » February 24th, 2012, 2:37 pm

Firts, I know that WINR, so ideas should be based on gameplay rather than on verisimilitude (I don't say "realism", because this idea concerns magical creatures), but I've found certain inconsistence in the new stable version (1.10) Fire Guardians and Dust Devil (from UtBS)now have "elemental" trait (same as "undead" and "mechanical", but with different name). However, Mudcrawlers don't receive this treatment.
According to their appearance and description, Mudcrawlers seem to resemble elementals, if made of mixture of two classic elements. Also, they don't have walking corpse variation just like other non-living units. I understand that making them immune to poison and draining would be gameplay change, however they aren't recruitable in default multiplayer and Fire Guardians didn't have this trait in previous versions and now they have it. So, is this an omission, a balance issue or some bizzare Mudcrawler physiology? (In the last case this topic could be moved to Writer's forum.)
I tried to search if this topic was brought before, but found nothing. If it was, please direct me where. Thanks for responses.
Last edited by Telchin on March 18th, 2012, 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ancestral
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Re: Are Mudcrawlers elementals?

Post by ancestral » February 24th, 2012, 5:15 pm

I always assumed mud crawlers were just animated sludge. Or perhaps failed elemental summonings?
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Xudo
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Re: Are Mudcrawlers elementals?

Post by Xudo » February 26th, 2012, 11:40 am

Questions to writers:
Is there any "official" lore about elementals in wesnoth?
Are forces that raise undead and summon elementals have common nature?
In other words, is it "animation of something with Magic" or "calling to force of shadow?/fire/air/..."?

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Re: Are Mudcrawlers elementals?

Post by Horus2 » March 12th, 2012, 9:50 pm

+1 to give them Elemental trait, this is one of the greater mysteries for me why didn't they get it. Telchin enlisted the reasons pretty well, and i don't know any mainline scenario where units with drain or poison are fighting against the mud, yet it's illogical and may cause confusion in umc or mp eras.

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Re: Are Mudcrawlers elementals?

Post by tr0ll » March 15th, 2012, 6:59 pm

The add-on series Rise of the Elementalist expands the elemental line quite a bit, treating mudcrawlers as a precursor of "real" elementals, in the sense that a L1 mudcrawler AMLAs into player's choice of L1 water, fire, stone, or air elemental. The add-on also introduces vampiric budding pure energy elementals.

One campaign (idk if add-on or mainline) had L1 mudcrawlers split into L0 mudcrawlers when hit by certain weapons, but i havent seen that used elsewhere.

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Telchin
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Re: Are Mudcrawlers elementals?

Post by Telchin » March 15th, 2012, 9:16 pm

One campaign (idk if add-on or mainline) had L1 mudcrawlers split into L0 mudcrawlers when hit by certain weapons, but i havent seen that used elsewhere.
I believe it's The Rise of Wesnoth (mainline campaign), scenarios the Dragon and Lizard Beach.
don't know any mainline scenario where units with drain or poison are fighting against the mud
Well, in the abovementioned TRoW you can recruit thieves and they get poison on level 3.

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Re: Are Mudcrawlers elementals?

Post by Insinuator » March 17th, 2012, 4:07 pm

Seems reasonable. Making them immune to poison and draining wouldn't be that big of a deal in terms of gameplay balance. They're weak enough units that poison isn't really necessary against them. I mean, given the choice of using my one Orcish Assassin to poison a Mudcrawler or a Spearman, I'd go with the Spearman 90% of the time.

Only objection is that mud isn't really an "element". Dirt is. Water is. But when you start combining elements, don't they just become regular creatures?

EDIT: Telchin, you may want to modify your thread title to include a bracketed category. Otherwise you may get locked over failure to conform. :(

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Re: Are Mudcrawlers elementals?

Post by Drakefriend » March 17th, 2012, 5:49 pm

Insinuator wrote:Seems reasonable. Making them immune to poison and draining wouldn't be that big of a deal in terms of gameplay balance. They're weak enough units that poison isn't really necessary against them. I mean, given the choice of using my one Orcish Assassin to poison a Mudcrawler or a Spearman, I'd go with the Spearman 90% of the time.

Only objection is that mud isn't really an "element". Dirt is. Water is. But when you start combining elements, don't they just become regular creatures?

EDIT: Telchin, you may want to modify your thread title to include a bracketed category. Otherwise you may get locked over failure to conform. :(
Probably they still fall into this category, or at least it is the one fitting closest: Mudcrawlers consist just of Earth, Water and magic, so they are more an "elemental" than "normal" liveform.
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Telchin
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Re: [mainline]Are Mudcrawlers elementals?

Post by Telchin » March 18th, 2012, 1:50 pm

Telchin, you may want to modify your thread title to include a bracketed category. Otherwise you may get locked over failure to conform.
I'm sorry. I wasn't sure if this thread belongs in Ideas or elsewhere so I half-anticipated it moved. Is it now correct category?

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MetalKing
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Re: [mainline]Are Mudcrawlers elementals?

Post by MetalKing » March 18th, 2012, 3:57 pm

Earth Elementals are totally different so I can guess if you want to ask if MudCrawlers shall represent Earth Elements which are self already Representants of "Element Earth" (Magical Type of Force). Their Nature is very different to MudCrawlers. EarthElementals are not intended to represent Mud. The Elementals of TLU are very much better. So if you want Elementals I suggett take that one as best available and acceptable Representants of Representans.

I would like to see at least some Fractions from there bound into MainGame as best Extension for their southern Area.
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