[engine] Friendly Unit Cell "Swap"

[Mabuse]

unfortuanately, i am also with the devs (or some of the devs) on this point.

in the example, the unit which should be swapped is almost completely surrounded.
well, in fact it is surrounded. in such a case the unit is usually lost.

so, swapping may be useful - but in cases like this it wouldnt be good imo.


i bet the romans would have loved to be able to "swap out" their units at cannae

[Solikos]

Hmm - so far the only good arguments (IMO) are a) that it would be a disadvantage to the AI (assuming it was coded in such a way that they AI could not take advantage of), and b) it may be tricky to implement (I'm certainly no developer).

I don't think this makes the idea of ZOC any less powerful... Both units technically should be able to move one space (in and out respectively). The ability to move a single space while in ZOC is, in fact, obeying the rules of ZOC. The proposed change would not somehow catapult the surrounded unit 10 spaces out of there. Nor do I think this makes anything imbalanced or lopsided.

As far as making the game more tactically challenging - I don't see why a poor mechanic is any way to accomplish that. That's like leaving a bug in the game and saying it's great because it provides a greater tactical challenge. Plus, perhaps this creates a "tactical challenge" for the attacker. If you can't kill a unit by attacking it with 5 units, maybe you deserve to let him wiggle free (in the case above, you'd still get an additional 2 attacks anyway, and possibly get to kill another unit as a sacrificial lamb)!

Concerning the reality of being able to swap... If you're standing next to someone why wouldn't that be feasible? What are they packed into those cells like sardines?

Not only does it make sense in reality, but even with the current way the game works! Units can currently walk over/through friendly units on their way TO a destination... So certainly they are able to share a cell even for a split second. Considering the arguments made, perhaps it should be that you can no longer walk through friendly units to get somewhere (after all, it would just provide a more tactically challenging game)! If you can't swap cells, then this type of change to the game would reinforce the logic denying cell swapping.

Sorry for the rant. I'm honestly not that passionate about seeing the change come about, but I hate seeing arguments without solid reasoning. And I suppose as I created this thread, I was supposed to explain why I disagree with past considerations. So, there they are.

[perseo]

Well in my opinion it makes it realistic (in fact) if there's a crowd in the entrance of a castle no one but the last soldiers can move due to the presure of all their lads. Do you see what I mean? If there are only some soldiers spread around the battlefield you can suposse they'll move for giving you a free space. This ability will make figthing lines even more easy to stand because you don't need to have free space. BTW sometimes I had paid millions for this ability
¡Salud!

Maybe this not a enjoyable situation...

[pauxlo]

About the realism arguments of not being able to swap because of being packed too dense:

Then please also disallow moving through hexes occupied by allied units, as this should not be possible, either.

[alluton]

One village fits into one hex. So 2 unit should be able to bypass each other. I dont if it should be implemented but that logic of "space" dont work.

[Colouredbox]

One village fits into one hex. So 2 unit should be able to bypass each other. I dont if it should be implemented but that logic of "space" dont work.

Those must be some badass units you got there as a single thief could take over a village.
I think we can all agree that bringing the realism card isn't the best way to fight.

[Caphriel]

HAPMA and UAPEB apply Wesnoth is in some ways abstract, and this is one of those ways. The limitation on swapping units is presumably for gameplay reasons, like those stated earlier in this thread.

[uncleshelby]

HAPMA and UAPEB apply Wesnoth is in some ways abstract, and this is one of those ways. The limitation on swapping units is presumably for gameplay reasons, like those stated earlier in this thread.

QFT.

I believe seem to remember Gambit (was it gambit? that was pre-me times.) once said something about Konrad having Sexy Female Body-guards, not just himself to fight.

[Caphriel]

According to this member's signature, it's "Let's all agree that Konrad simply represents 'Konrad and his female ninja bodyguards'."

[Flameslash]

But that doesn't change the fact, that if the logic being used by the people against this idea is correct, you shouldn't be able to move through allied units.

[Caphriel]

The realism-based arguments are irrelevant anyway. The decision to implement it as it currently is was almost certainly made for gameplay reasons, not for flavor reasons.

[Gambit]

Yep. Locked.