[interface] Select with left click. Act with right click.

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MetalKing
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[interface] Select with left click. Act with right click.

Post by MetalKing » September 12th, 2011, 12:17 pm

I would prefer it if the control of units get changed that way that you have to select a unit by L-click (as is) though give order or more generaly enter an action menu by R-click. Thus you can't enter an unwantend command to an selected unit if you just want to select another unit.

Another point is the potentially unnecessary undo-function: Keep a unit movable inside his present movement-area as long as no additional informations get received. So you can replace a unit as often as you want without using the undo-function. Replace-function make undo obsolete and is easier to use: no menu item or key necessary though just directly click on new location.
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zookeeper
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Re: Select Object by Left-Click and select Action by Right-C

Post by zookeeper » September 12th, 2011, 12:24 pm

Both ideas are horribly bad. Not going to happen.

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Re: Select Object by Left-Click and select Action by Right-C

Post by Crendgrim » September 12th, 2011, 12:50 pm

It seems that both your suggestions are based on the problem of misclicks. You may try out the new whiteboard system in 1.9 which solves that problem quite good.
However, if you're just too lazy to press u if you want to undo a move, then this probably will be too complicated as well...


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Re: Select Object by Left-Click and select Action by Right-C

Post by uncleshelby » September 12th, 2011, 5:45 pm

zookeeper wrote:Both ideas are horribly bad. Not going to happen.
:lol2:
Timshel

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Re: Select Object by Left-Click and select Action by Right-C

Post by Pentarctagon » September 12th, 2011, 10:20 pm

uncleshelby wrote: :lol2:
Posts made entirely of a single smilie are completely pointless :annoyed:

@MetalKing: All of your ideas (not just in this thread) seem to be based almost entirely on what you want or think would be good. I suggest that you read this and in general just try and think about the scope of some of the changes you are proposing and how much work they would require.
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Re: Select Object by Left-Click and select Action by Right-C

Post by uncleshelby » September 12th, 2011, 10:46 pm

Pentarctagon wrote:
uncleshelby wrote: :lol2:
Posts made entirely of a single smilie are completely pointless :annoyed:
Not that one. I learned that posts consisting of only a smiley are pointless. From now on, though, I will abide.
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Re: Select Object by Left-Click and select Action by Right-C

Post by shadowm » September 12th, 2011, 10:53 pm

Let’s play a game: how many moderators are needed to lock an Ideas topic?

I say this is soft-locked now to give the OP an opportunity to respond to zookeeper.
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MetalKing
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Re: Select Object by Left-Click and select Action by Right-C

Post by MetalKing » September 13th, 2011, 1:22 pm

zookeeper wrote:Both ideas are horribly bad. Not going to happen.
I hope there are other opinions.
"Sir! We are surrounded by our enemies!" - "Excellent ! We can attack in every direction!"
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Re: Select Object by Left-Click and select Action by Right-C

Post by Great_Mage_Atari » September 13th, 2011, 4:06 pm

Yeah. In all honesty, it's terrible. It seriously over-complicates things. I really don't see the point of this. How is this at all an improvement over the current system?Yeah. In all honesty, it's terrible. It seriously over-complicates things. I really don't see the point of this. How is this at all an improvement over the current system?

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Re: Select Object by Left-Click and select Action by Right-C

Post by fabi » September 13th, 2011, 4:52 pm

I think the first is a good idea.
That is the way Civilization 5 works and it works well.

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Re: Select Object by Left-Click and select Action by Right-C

Post by Insinuator » September 14th, 2011, 5:39 am

MetalKing wrote:I would prefer it if the control of units get changed that way that you have to select a unit by L-click (as is) though give order or more generaly enter an action menu by R-click. Thus you can't enter an unwantend command to an selected unit if you just want to select another unit.
Though I was initially repulsed by this idea, it would be nice. You don't lose any functionality and the chance of misclicking is probably reduced. That said, it sounds like it would be difficult to implement, and for such a marginal benefit, meh.

The second idea is a little redundant. Unit positioning can already be laid out without removing FoW. Plus, unit placement can be visualized with the new "whiteboard" system.

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Re: Select Object by Left-Click and select Action by Right-C

Post by Velensk » September 14th, 2011, 11:40 am

The first idea is in general a copy of control schemes people are more familiar with. Personally I don't see the point in moving the command list to a different control for this (the menu with recruit, rename, Star commands, ect.). One way makes a few things a little more convenient and the other makes others so you might we might as well keep the one our reflexes are conditioned to.
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Re: Select Object by Left-Click and select Action by Right-C

Post by zookeeper » September 14th, 2011, 1:08 pm

So, to move a unit, which is the most common action you make and which you likely make hundreds of times in an average scenario, would now mean going through the right-click menu. No more "click on unit, click on destination, done", but "click on unit, right-click on unit, click on move, click on destination, done" (the first click could maybe be made unneeded). That's a minimum of one extra click, and extra mouse movement to navigate the menu, and that's bad and would get extremely tedious and annoying really quickly.

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Re: Select Object by Left-Click and select Action by Right-C

Post by fabi » September 14th, 2011, 2:45 pm

I show Wesnoth regularly to new users, mostly students of computer science, some of them are gamers.
Those test persons are all used to graphical user interfaces, and they are skilled in getting used to new ones fast.
All of them tell me that the gui of Wesnoth is awkward, hard to use and not easy to get.

I do always tell them that the gui of Wesnoth is fine, that they will get used to it soon and love it at the end.

But the feedback is mostly different. After some time (if the testers stay with the game) most of them tell me
that they really got used to it but not love it.
Most demand more configurability and have similar problems like the original poster.
My 5 year old mouse features 5 buttons, most of them are usable in applications like firefox in the meantime.
Wesnoth only supports 2 of them and the configuration is static.

One of my friends told me:
"Fabi, this game does not have a good user interface. It's not completely trash but not at the top either.
You are just already too long involved in developing that game and you have developed a certain Betriebsblindheit to see that."

Betriebsblindheit can be translated with being "too close to the problem" to see obvious things.
His point was that I got routine-blinded and developed bureaucratic obliviousness to judge the value of Wesnoth's gui.
Most of our current developer base members or long term forum visitors are professionally blinkered to some degree which leads to process blindness.
zookeeper wrote:So, to move a unit, which is the most common action you make and which you likely make hundreds of times in an average scenario, would now mean going through the right-click menu. No more "click on unit, click on destination, done", but "click on unit, right-click on unit, click on move, click on destination, done" (the first click could maybe be made unneeded). That's a minimum of one extra click, and extra mouse movement to navigate the menu, and that's bad and would get extremely tedious and annoying really quickly.
Indeed, what you describe sounds horrible.
I thought more of one sort of click for selecting units and another sort of click to trigger the move. So it stays with two mouse clicks for the movement action.
The context menu is still a problem that needs to be addressed.
I think that one solution that is worth to be tested is bringing up the context menu when the right mouse button is not single clicked but kept pressed.
Releasing the right mouse pointer button over the context menu entry selects it.
That is rather foolproof if you make the first menu entry "move unit here", accidentally triggered context menu appearance is still a move.

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Re: Select Object by Left-Click and select Action by Right-C

Post by Velensk » September 14th, 2011, 2:56 pm

I had assumed that you just clicked on a unit and then right clicked on the destination as well, which is a command scheme many games use and is not really any more physically or time demanding than what we do right now, or any less for that matter.
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