Annoyance of ambush and move+attack
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Maiklas3000
- Posts: 532
- Joined: June 23rd, 2010, 10:43 am
Annoyance of ambush and move+attack
Current implementation: When you specify a move and attack together and then you are ambushed, your movement stops, but if your attack was to take place at this location, it proceeds.
Why this is a problem: This basically demands users to separate their movement and attack, which is just a user interface nuisance with no game benefit. A second reason this is a problem is the lack of consistency with the effects of ambush. For example, if you are moving 4 hexes and get ambushed at the third hex, the rest of your movement is cancelled, and so is any attack you may have specified (of course.) On the other hand, if you get ambushed at the fourth and last hex of your movement, your attack goes off as planned. An example of when this is a really big annoyance is when you specify a move-and-melee-attack with a Dwarf Explorer against an Elf Archer, and low and behold, revealed is a Wose adjacent to the last hex moved into, and the attack goes off against the Archer, when you probably would have liked to do a ranged attack against the Wose instead (and then finish it off with other units.)
Solution: Just cancel any prespecified attack when the player is ambushed. Ambush should cancel both movement (even if no ZOC lock) and attack and let the player then decide what to do with respect to attacking.
Problem to the solution: Ambush then has slightly less value, in that players who are lazy and do not break apart their move and attack will not be penalized by getting ambushed and having the attack go off against the prespecified target. I consider this acceptable, because I am lazy.
Question: Are there any units with no ZOC lock but with ambush ability? If so, what happens with prespecified movement when a unit moves adjacent and is ambushed?
Why this is a problem: This basically demands users to separate their movement and attack, which is just a user interface nuisance with no game benefit. A second reason this is a problem is the lack of consistency with the effects of ambush. For example, if you are moving 4 hexes and get ambushed at the third hex, the rest of your movement is cancelled, and so is any attack you may have specified (of course.) On the other hand, if you get ambushed at the fourth and last hex of your movement, your attack goes off as planned. An example of when this is a really big annoyance is when you specify a move-and-melee-attack with a Dwarf Explorer against an Elf Archer, and low and behold, revealed is a Wose adjacent to the last hex moved into, and the attack goes off against the Archer, when you probably would have liked to do a ranged attack against the Wose instead (and then finish it off with other units.)
Solution: Just cancel any prespecified attack when the player is ambushed. Ambush should cancel both movement (even if no ZOC lock) and attack and let the player then decide what to do with respect to attacking.
Problem to the solution: Ambush then has slightly less value, in that players who are lazy and do not break apart their move and attack will not be penalized by getting ambushed and having the attack go off against the prespecified target. I consider this acceptable, because I am lazy.
Question: Are there any units with no ZOC lock but with ambush ability? If so, what happens with prespecified movement when a unit moves adjacent and is ambushed?
Last edited by Maiklas3000 on July 28th, 2010, 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Annoyance of ambush and move+attack
Do you know you can just press 'Esc' or use the cancel button in the Attack dialog to cancel the attack?
There are none in Mainline (i think), but I saw one in an UMC era once. The effect is like any ambush, effectively giving this hidden unit kind of a ZOC until it is shown to the enemy.Question: Are there any units with no ZOC lock but with ambush ability? If so, what happens with prespecified movement when a unit moves adjacent and is ambushed?
Re: Annoyance of ambush and move+attack
If a skirmisher unit gets ambushed, it also loses all of its remaining MP. Don't know what happens when the ambusher itself lacks ZoC, though.
This was done to prevent the situation that could happen before when you "attacked" with unit just to pop the dialog and see the damage calculation, with the intention of cancelling anyway, but the unit got ambushed, making the move irreversible.
In the latest stable release the attack dialog pops up before the unit moves. So by the time a unit is ambushed, the player already had the attack dialog shown and clicked "Ok".pauxlo wrote:Do you know you can just press 'Esc' or use the cancel button in the Attack dialog to cancel the attack?
This was done to prevent the situation that could happen before when you "attacked" with unit just to pop the dialog and see the damage calculation, with the intention of cancelling anyway, but the unit got ambushed, making the move irreversible.
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Speedbrain
- Posts: 137
- Joined: August 10th, 2009, 9:51 pm
- Location: Utah, USA
Re: Annoyance of ambush and move+attack
Although I can't remember ever having run across this, I agree with you. I almost always choose to attack at the same time I make the move. It is quicker and easier than having to move first, then choosing to attack.
However, I may be more careful now when I know I am playing against enemies that could have ambushers.
It seems like (from someone who is not a coder) that the solution could be to cancel pending attacks at the same time the MP's are reduced to zero, ie when the ambush event triggers. But like I said, I am no coder and do not know if this would be hard to do or not.
However, I may be more careful now when I know I am playing against enemies that could have ambushers.
It seems like (from someone who is not a coder) that the solution could be to cancel pending attacks at the same time the MP's are reduced to zero, ie when the ambush event triggers. But like I said, I am no coder and do not know if this would be hard to do or not.
Re: Annoyance of ambush and move+attack
It shows that my information is a bit old ... sorry.Yoyobuae wrote:In the latest stable release the attack dialog pops up before the unit moves. So by the time a unit is ambushed, the player already had the attack dialog shown and clicked "Ok".pauxlo wrote:Do you know you can just press 'Esc' or use the cancel button in the Attack dialog to cancel the attack?
Re: Annoyance of ambush and move+attack
Fixed, it will be in 1.9.0.
The problem was that we only consider "not reaching destination" as an interruption. Checking MP is not enough too, because a unit may lose its MP just by the move, or the ZoC or the Ambush etc...
Current method is to scan adjacent visible enemies before and after move and detect difference, so it could even detect other cases than simple ambush (WML events).
The problem was that we only consider "not reaching destination" as an interruption. Checking MP is not enough too, because a unit may lose its MP just by the move, or the ZoC or the Ambush etc...
Current method is to scan adjacent visible enemies before and after move and detect difference, so it could even detect other cases than simple ambush (WML events).