See the damage of the enemy if he attack you

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CMaster
Posts: 55
Joined: December 7th, 2008, 2:25 pm

Re: See the damage of the enemy if he attack you

Post by CMaster »

Sangel wrote:The idea is generally promising, but the implementation raises questions. Is this going to be a right-click option? A menu option? There'll need to be some way to note which tile the unit is attacking from, in much the same way that you pick the tile you attack from in the current move-attack.

My favoured option would be a three-step system:
1) Select "Calculate Battle Probabilities" from the "Actions" menu.
--> "Select the proposed attacker" appears in the middle of the screen. [Not in a dialog box].
2) You click on the unit you want to calculate as the attacker.
--> "Select the proposed defender, and direction" appears in the middle of the screen. [No dialog box].
3) You click the unit you want to calculate as the defender, with the usual directional options.
4) A "Calculate Battle Probabilities" dialog box appears, identical to the current pre-attack box.

A more advanced version of the "Calculate Battle Probabilities" box could allow you to select a specific terrain for both attacker and defender, change the time of day the battle was taking place at, or even select new attackers or defenders from a list of units on the battlefield. [A list of units from your recruit list would also be nice, but then there'd need to be a way to consider random traits].
My experience tells me that this would be a very heavily used feature. As such, the interface to activate it should be as simple as possible. Because of this, I think it would be better to use a hotkey:

1. When you click an enemy unit, it gets selected the way we know it.
2. Once you hit the hotkey, the path indicators appear for the selected unit as if it was one of your units you are about to move. You release the hotkey, the path indication disappears.
3. When you hover your mouse over one of your units (with the hotkey pressed), an attack indicator appears.
4. Clicking on your unit brings up a modified attack dialog (no "ok" button for instance).

The shift key could be used as a hotkey for example, and probably both the path and attack indicators should be specialized to tell the user that this is simulation only. A small additional 's' could suffice for the attack indicator for example.
I'm a reciever!

Upthorn
Inactive Developer
Posts: 2
Joined: March 28th, 2010, 2:03 am

Re: See the damage of the enemy if he attack you

Post by Upthorn »

CMaster wrote:
Sangel wrote:The idea is generally promising, but the implementation raises questions. Is this going to be a right-click option? A menu option? There'll need to be some way to note which tile the unit is attacking from, in much the same way that you pick the tile you attack from in the current move-attack.

My favoured option would be a three-step system:
1) Select "Calculate Battle Probabilities" from the "Actions" menu.
--> "Select the proposed attacker" appears in the middle of the screen. [Not in a dialog box].
2) You click on the unit you want to calculate as the attacker.
--> "Select the proposed defender, and direction" appears in the middle of the screen. [No dialog box].
3) You click the unit you want to calculate as the defender, with the usual directional options.
4) A "Calculate Battle Probabilities" dialog box appears, identical to the current pre-attack box.

A more advanced version of the "Calculate Battle Probabilities" box could allow you to select a specific terrain for both attacker and defender, change the time of day the battle was taking place at, or even select new attackers or defenders from a list of units on the battlefield. [A list of units from your recruit list would also be nice, but then there'd need to be a way to consider random traits].
My experience tells me that this would be a very heavily used feature. As such, the interface to activate it should be as simple as possible. Because of this, I think it would be better to use a hotkey:

1. When you click an enemy unit, it gets selected the way we know it.
2. Once you hit the hotkey, the path indicators appear for the selected unit as if it was one of your units you are about to move. You release the hotkey, the path indication disappears.
3. When you hover your mouse over one of your units (with the hotkey pressed), an attack indicator appears.
4. Clicking on your unit brings up a modified attack dialog (no "ok" button for instance).

The shift key could be used as a hotkey for example, and probably both the path and attack indicators should be specialized to tell the user that this is simulation only. A small additional 's' could suffice for the attack indicator for example.
This still seems more complicated than it needs to be. I suggest:
1. When you click an enemy unit, it gets selected the way we know it.
2. Once you hit the hotkey, the path indicators appear for the selected unit as if it was one of your units you are about to move. If you release the hotkey, the path indication disappears.
3. When you hover your mouse over one of your units (with the hotkey pressed), an attack indicator appears.
4. Clicking on your unit brings up a modified combat calculator that shows statistics for each possible attack the enemy can make. (uses attack terrain indicated by the path, and defense terrain indicated by friendly unit's current position)

And additionally, it might be a good idea to allow
1. When you click an enemy unit, it gets selected the way we know it.
2. Once you hit the hotkey, the path indicators appear for the selected unit as if it was one of your units you are about to move. If you release the hotkey, the path indication disappears.
3. With the hotkey held, you click an empty tile, it shows selected and an attack indicator appears. (if possible, tiles adjacent to the selected tile are highlighted.)
4. You click a highlighted tile and a new indicator appears. (if possible, friendly units that can reach this tile are highlighted)
5. Clicking on your unit brings up a modified combat calculator that shows statistics for each possible attack the enemy can make. (Uses attack terrain selected in step 3, and defense terrain selected in step 4)

This is the most simple interface I can think of that allows the user to simulate combat between arbitrary units at an arbitrary location, but I bet somebody else can think of an even better one.

This should also be possible to use with your own units selected, to get the simulated combat results without the possibility of triggering an ambush. And it should be possible to use with allied units, to get a good judge of how much support you may be able to recieve if you charge into combat with allies nearby.

Sangel
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2232
Joined: March 26th, 2004, 10:58 pm
Location: New York, New York

Re: See the damage of the enemy if he attack you

Post by Sangel »

Upthorn wrote:<Suggested details>

This should also be possible to use with your own units selected, to get the simulated combat results without the possibility of triggering an ambush. And it should be possible to use with allied units, to get a good judge of how much support you may be able to recieve if you charge into combat with allies nearby.
I like this suggested, with the proviso that the "attack" icon should probably have a little question mark superimposed whenever it's being used purely to calculate odds on a simulated battle. There should also be an action menu option to accomplish the same thing, as a way for people to see "oh, there's the option, and there's the hotkey". But you probably already had that in mind.

Is your SoC proposal in this area, by the way?
"Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Ardent
Posts: 54
Joined: February 3rd, 2009, 10:36 pm

Re: See the damage of the enemy if he attack you

Post by Ardent »

I'm probably saying what is obvious, but the TOD on the turn of the selected enemy unit should be taken into consideration for the results calculation.
You are an Orcish Grunt: cheap, powerful, but effective.

gabba
Inactive Developer
Posts: 129
Joined: January 24th, 2005, 5:08 pm
Location: Quebec

Re: See the damage of the enemy if he attack you

Post by gabba »

OP, I think that what you're requesting would be a pretty easy further development based on my GSoC work.
See http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC-WW_Optional_Future_Gabba, and the main page of course to get some context.

The general idea would be that you plan hypothetical attacks from several enemies on one of your units, and then when hovering your mouse on your unit or selecting an option, you see the enemies total chance to kill it, and possibly more info. It plugs in very nicely into my whole planned moves framework, actually.

Sangel
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2232
Joined: March 26th, 2004, 10:58 pm
Location: New York, New York

Re: See the damage of the enemy if he attack you

Post by Sangel »

gabba wrote:OP, I think that what you're requesting would be a pretty easy further development based on my GSoC work.
See http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC-WW_Optional_Future_Gabba, and the main page of course to get some context.

The general idea would be that you plan hypothetical attacks from several enemies on one of your units, and then when hovering your mouse on your unit or selecting an option, you see the enemies total chance to kill it, and possibly more info. It plugs in very nicely into my whole planned moves framework, actually.
Frankly, these ideas sound fantastic, and I hope you'll have the time to implement them all.
"Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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