One idea, little suggestion and two questions.

[sylkis]

Hi. I'm new to his forum, so btw I say 'Hello World' (of Wesnoth) and wanted to thank all the people involved in developement of this game. You guys make a really grat work, I love playing campaigns, maybe one day I'll try online gaming (which would be REALY unusal, as I'm storytelling-roleplay-offline-lover ). Oh, and I love the map-editor - and hope that one day the campaign editor will become one with wesnoth as well. It's great to see that there are good games made by hobbysts for free, working together to make it something bigger with great results

I'm not much of a programmer - the only thing I have in common with is that I used to create some things with RPG maker, so it's as much as gui-based algorithm constructing...and because of that despite I want to help wesnoth, I'm not much of a use. still, some time ago I came up with a few ideas, I don't remember all of them, but here is one thing that was the most major one for me, and I've checked the common ideas thread - it's not there.

First of all, I know that developing units are thought to be connected with risk, but hey, risk can vary, coming out of many different aspects of the battle. The idea I'm trying to defend by this introduction is that maybe getting controll over a village/town can give the unit some experience. Of course a very little one, but still. And maybe it could be like - getting control over some place would give some small amount of exp., and taking it away from the oponent's control - twice as much (but still it wouldn't be much). of course getting on a village that already is in your power gives nothing. Oh and the exp. would be gained once withing gettin on some place, keeping it already gives money and healing to get the unit more exp. from towns you'd have to search for more towns of course.
I think this makes sense logically thinking, that conquerors gain experience by exploring the world or even taking control over the villages that are under enemy's power - it's even a bit wierd that there is no bonus for taking over some place, just only for keeping it... And I think it would be good for some large maps - the scouts would be better prepared if they'd fell into a trap, etc, and for some economical strategies - sometimes the key to win is to keep as much villages as possible under your power, earning much money for units AND making oponent have financial problems, so he can't recruit unit's to protect the leader. That would add more risk&temptation about figthing units that defend a town, as they could possibly for instance get into village with almost as much exp. as needed to level up and hooray, we've got someone stronger to defend and/or woops! we've lost a town and have a stronger unit to defeat, if it's oponent who made us such a trick. It would be also more tempting to send lone scouts into enemy's territory in, which still would be a great risk itself.
It may just change a bit tactics of playing, adding more fun imo.

I hope I explained it understandably - it's a bit hard for me as I'm not a native-speaker of english

And a little suggestion of mine was...the drakes. I mean, the race that evolved from dragons - their name is a bit unfortunate imo. I've checked that the word 'drake' in old english used to mean dragon, and thus it'd be a great name for a fantasy race - but there is a BUT. In modern english drake means MALE DUCK and such meaning is widely taught in schools, and as a result calling a dragon-like being a duck sounds ridiculus. I know that some words have many meanings, but still the association is like...it's not even funny, imo. On the wikipedia there's info that the word 'drake' in the meaning of dragon has evolved from word 'Draca', so maybe that "draca' would be a nice replacement to 'drake'?

Oh and I wanted to ask you one thing. about that NRIW stuff. I don't want to start another discussion wether it's good or not - it's understandable and I accept it. And as far as I understand the reason - it's beacuse religious issues may offend someone. Okay, I agree that there may be some people sensitive about this. But to come to think about it - Wesnoth (same as most fantasy worlds) is filled with various reaces that sometimes cooperate, but most of the time they fight with each other, or at least dislike (and not hide it at all). It's like...racism, you know? And there are same many people sensitive about racism, as many people sensitive about religion there are - and still the rasist problem is not being avoided...so why care so much about religion, and not about racism - both intolerance kinds (religious intolerance - a.k.a wars about different cults and converting, etc and just simply - racism) are equally bad and possibly offending, so why? I agree that there sould be some limits as it Is a game made by a group of very different people from all over the world and so the Wesnoth aims to be as universal and not provoking as it is possible (so it was more fun for everyone), but I think it's a bit inconsistent about that.

second question is purely technical - in the map editor, how to make strongholds behave like in campaigns, I mean how to choose one hex on which you have to stand in order to recruit units, instead of possibility of walking around whole camp/castle and being able to recruit units when standing on random hex of it? I just couldn't find it anywhere

[Aethaeryn]

In modern english drake means MALE DUCK and such meaning is widely taught in schools, and as a result calling a dragon-like being a duck sounds ridiculus.

For some reason, I don't recall ever learning this in school.

[StandYourGround]

It is true, though. I thought little of it, as I accepted that terms in Wesnoth don't really have to mean the same thing they do in reality.

[sylkis]

In modern english drake means MALE DUCK and such meaning is widely taught in schools, and as a result calling a dragon-like being a duck sounds ridiculus.

For some reason, I don't recall ever learning this in school.

well, I'm a non-native-speaker, and I've been taught it on the lessons when I was a child same lessons as those where you learn what a 'cow', a 'dog' or a 'cat' is and in dictionaries it's often the only meaning written for that word, for instance http://ling.pl/indexalt.php?word=drake - here are results of several dictionaries ('kaczor' means male duck in polish) - there are 7 male ducks, and 1 dragon...
And of course, I'm not saying that this MUST be changed, It's just a little suggestion I realise that it would be a lot of not nessesairly needed work now to change it, but still...or is it? ctfl+f and 'replace' when editing code would do, or is it still too much trouble?

[Yogibear]

Hi. I'm new to his forum, so btw I say 'Hello World' (of Wesnoth)

Welcome to Wesnoth .

That would add more risk&temptation about figthing units that defend a town, as they could possibly for instance get into village with almost as much exp. as needed to level up and hooray, we've got someone stronger to defend and/or woops! we've lost a town and have a stronger unit to defeat, if it's oponent who made us such a trick. It would be also more tempting to send lone scouts into enemy's territory in, which still would be a great risk itself.

Honestly, i don't see how that changes things, really. If you gain less XP by taking a village, let's say 1/4th point, the main XP source is still fighting. If my scout needs one XP to level and he takes the enemy village, the next unit attacking him would level him, just as it would have happened without that 1/4th XP.

I also can't see why scouts would be more save. If they get trapped, they die, a tiny fraction XP will not save them from that, no?

It's like...racism, you know? And there are same many people sensitive about racism, as many people sensitive about religion there are - and still the rasist problem is not being avoided...so why care so much about religion, and not about racism - both intolerance kinds (religious intolerance - a.k.a wars about different cults and converting, etc and just simply - racism) are equally bad and possibly offending, so why?

Probably because the characters and their races are completely ficticious, so people don't get offended if the orc commander says "Let's wipe out those filthy elves!". Whereas religion as a concept is abstract enough not to be seen the same way.

I admit you have a point, though. There should be better reasons for fighting each other than racial differences. Or maybe there shouldn't be any good reasons for fighting each other at all...

But then again, how would you justify a game like wesnoth, that is primarily build on fighting?

[Sapient]

Wesnoth is about combat between mortals, not combat between deities. While there may not be officially sanctioned gods, per se, there are beings of great magical power (which is pretty much the same thing, depending on your definition of a god). A real bonafide God would be, in game terms, just too overpowered. And as for false, ineffectual gods... well why would anyone pray to a false, ineffectual god if real, actual magic and beings of great magical power were in plain existence?

The NRIW policy is an unofficial thing really. The reason cross icons and 'holy' damage are removed is because we don't want are real world religions (or shallow alterations thereof) to end up in official Wesnoth content. If you want to make a campaign about the Roman Catholic Church fighting against hordes of Buddhist monks, then there's no one to stop you. Just don't expect it to enter the official distribution.

Personally, I'm content to leave people to their own imagination and I hope it stays that way.

[Velensk]

second question is purely technical - in the map editor, how to make strongholds behave like in campaigns, I mean how to choose one hex on which you have to stand in order to recruit units, instead of possibility of walking around whole camp/castle and being able to recruit units when standing on random hex of it? I just couldn't find it anywhere

You will find that in the editor there are two types of castle tiles, keep tiles and normal castle tiles. The keep tiles are the ones you can recruit from.

[thespaceinvader]

'Drake' does mean male duck, true. But it's not a common usage, the word does also mean 'dragon', or thereabouts, and 'draca' is not a word, and sounds a little silly. We're sticking with 'drake' thanks. It's also much easier to pluralise in a sensible-sounding way. Couldn't say much about the rest of the text wall...

[Ken_Oh]

I'm with Aethaeryn. I've never heard of this before.

[Velensk]

I'm with Aethaeryn. I've never heard of this before.

I have, however Wesnoth is not the first nor second place I've seen the work drake associated with dragons. I also agree with Space Invader that Draca would not work very well and that drake works fine even if its technical definition means something else.

[Thanatos]

I'm with Aethaeryn. I've never heard of this before.

For Ubuntu users, this is widely known thanks to Ubuntu 6.06 "Dapper Drake".

However, I like Drakes as they are: cute little Dragons.

[Caphriel]

While technically true, that's not common usage in the parts of the US I'm from. I can't speak for other regions or other English-speaking countries. The meaning of drake as "male duck" is not widely taught in schools, or at least it wasn't when I went to school. I suspect that your experience with it is "male duck" because, unlike English nouns, Polish nouns have gender, but if you asked most native English speakers, they'd probably be unaware of that definition.

[sylkis]

You will find that in the editor there are two types of castle tiles, keep tiles and normal castle tiles. The keep tiles are the ones you can recruit.

well I did belive so, but when I create maps and test it it turns out that it works only for AI - a player can recruit from the whole castle. Or I've missed sth and think about wrong two types of tiles (there is for instance wooden wall with camp inside or without, or there is castle with high or low towers/walls).

about the exp for getting a town - honestly, I just like the idea and I think it would be nice addition to gameplay, maybe it wouldn't change THAT much, but still a bit (mostly the feeling I suppose). To tell the truth, if I were a programmer and knew how to, I'd create a patch and post it here as a rough and ready proposition, already working that maybe it would be accepted as an addition from add-on server, or maybe implemented in the game itself. But unfortunately I'm not and have no idea how such things are done, so I can only share my idea with words...

about religion vs racism - It was just my insight that I belive may give a reason to think about the case, but I don't want to create any flame or large disputes for any changes.

About drakes - I belive that for some native speakers that are more into fantasy than zoology the meaning of dragon would be more familiar, but still I bet that there are people that will think just the other way about, especially if they don't like fantasy and gather knowledge in some biological science, or sth. Especially NON-native speakers, like myself, cause I bet that in school noone is learning animal names of your own language (as it is supposed that you already know them), in contrast to speakers of other languages who just learn vocabulary (and for children at elementary school it usually being with animals, etc)...and apparently there are more non-native than native speakers of english, but okay, it's still english and native speakres are the ones that are authority (or at least should be) in that case Oh, and 'draca' was taken from wikipedia. It could be any other word as well for me maybe some invented one.

and in cocnlusion once again - theese are some of my insights, and I don't really wan't to make mess of any kind or sth. I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, as I belive it's the idea of this forum

btw, I'm Ubuntu user

[Thanatos]

..., but still I bet that there are people that will think just the other way about, especially if they don't like fantasy and gather knowledge in some biological science, or sth.

You realize that Wesnoth is a fantasy game?

[Gambit]

well I did belive so, but when I create maps and test it it turns out that it works only for AI - a player can recruit from the whole castle. Or I've missed sth and think about wrong two types of tiles (there is for instance wooden wall with camp inside or without, or there is castle with high or low towers/walls).

You made a giant chunk of keep but no castle. Keeps have the red towers. Keeps are always fancier.

wooden wall = castle
wooden wall + tent = keep

black castle = castle
black castle + throne = keep

castle = castle
castle + red towers = keep

stone/wood wall = castle
stone/wood wall + giant spikes sticking out of the side = keep