UMC ability: Unit gives +1 XP to all surrounding lower units

Brainstorm ideas of possible additions to the game. Read this before posting!

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Forum rules
Before posting a new idea, you must read the following:
Post Reply
Edwarfin
Posts: 10
Joined: June 8th, 2009, 11:35 pm

UMC ability: Unit gives +1 XP to all surrounding lower units

Post by Edwarfin »

I've been working on unit statistics for a hypothetical faction I have in mind, and in the process, I thought of this new ability, which I call "Instruct", as an option for the highest-level leader unit.

This faction is intended to have units with higher skill requirements than the Wesnoth norm, and they're intended to be a bit more costly, overall. I intend for this faction to have a strong officer corp, and it dawned on me that the level 4 leader unit (which roughly competes with the Elvish Marshal and Loyal Grand Marshal) could be given an extra ability, both to make him more interesting and to provide a tangible advantage in this officer line; something that stands out next to the other, similar units.

This ability would allow the level 4 Captain to provide +1 XP to all adjacent lower-level friendly units, every turn, like leadership or healing.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the balance ramifications of this concept. On one hand, if the units have higher experience requirements than the norm, this could allow this unit to help out more in that area, as well as give extra incentive to commission officer units. It also makes the unit described somewhat more interesting.

On the other hand, this ability is really not necessary. It would be possible to balance this unit out without it; in fact it would be easier. The +1 XP bonus can be overpowered; it's equivalent to a unit getting a kill every 4 turns. Someone with this ability could develop a substantial "elite guard" of units over a long period of time, and in larger numbers than I suspect many people will get in standard multiplayer. In campaign mode, it could be brutally effective, allowing players to build and maintain an amazingly high-XP army in ridiculously short amounts of time. This faction may have XP problems the rest of the time, but with this unit in play that weakness is completely demolished.

I harbor no illusions that this would be of any particular use or benefit to the existing Wesnoth campaigns or lines. But hypothetically, if such an ability was to exist, do you think it could be balanced? Or is its power, and the accompanying negative aspects, simply too overpowered to ever fit in?

Thanks for your time. Sorry if this isn't the right forum for such discussion; there were a few options, but this seemed like the best place.
User avatar
Vendanna
Posts: 626
Joined: September 16th, 2006, 10:07 pm
Location: Spain

Re: UMC ability: Unit gives +1 XP to all surrounding lower units

Post by Vendanna »

I think "free goblins" factions had the ability you are talking about, so do a forum search for it, and read. :eng:

The idea isn't "new" tought I have read it a few times before.
"Mysteries are revealed in the light of reason."
User avatar
Sithras
Posts: 33
Joined: August 18th, 2009, 4:24 pm

Re: UMC ability: Unit gives +1 XP to all surrounding lower units

Post by Sithras »

Thats kinda like a little advantage that noobs can take granted. For example, if your leader is a level 4 unit, and they can only recruit level 1 and 0 units, the leader could keep them by him, allowing "free" level ups.

Since many multiplayer games last until the last man stands, this could be an automatic win.
Why are you wasting your time reading this when you are here for the forums?
User avatar
JW
Posts: 5046
Joined: November 10th, 2005, 7:06 am
Location: Chicago-ish, Illinois

Re: UMC ability: Unit gives +1 XP to all surrounding lower units

Post by JW »

This is a neat idea that I think would work better in an era where all factions have leaders withthis quality, but at differing degrees of strength.
User avatar
Ken_Oh
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2178
Joined: February 6th, 2006, 4:03 am
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA

Re: UMC ability: Unit gives +1 XP to all surrounding lower units

Post by Ken_Oh »

Vendanna wrote:I think "free goblins" factions had the ability you are talking about, so do a forum search for it, and read. :eng:

The idea isn't "new" tought I have read it a few times before.
This. Look up "battle tutor".
User avatar
Thrawn
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2047
Joined: June 2nd, 2005, 11:37 am
Location: bridge of SSD Chimera

Re: UMC ability: Unit gives +1 XP to all surrounding lower units

Post by Thrawn »

Ken_Oh wrote:
Vendanna wrote:I think "free goblins" factions had the ability you are talking about, so do a forum search for it, and read. :eng:

The idea isn't "new" tought I have read it a few times before.
This. Look up "battle tutor".
also free saurians has this as well.
...please remember that "IT'S" ALWAYS MEANS "IT IS" and "ITS" IS WHAT YOU USE TO INDICATE POSSESSION BY "IT".--scott

this goes for they're/their/there as well
taemyr
Posts: 65
Joined: September 1st, 2007, 12:33 pm

Re: UMC ability: Unit gives +1 XP to all surrounding lower units

Post by taemyr »

Edwarfin wrote: I'd like to hear your thoughts on the balance ramifications of this concept. On one hand, if the units have higher experience requirements than the norm, this could allow this unit to help out more in that area, as well as give extra incentive to commission officer units. It also makes the unit described somewhat more interesting.

On the other hand, this ability is really not necessary. It would be possible to balance this unit out without it; in fact it would be easier. The +1 XP bonus can be overpowered; it's equivalent to a unit getting a kill every 4 turns. Someone with this ability could develop a substantial "elite guard" of units over a long period of time, and in larger numbers than I suspect many people will get in standard multiplayer. In campaign mode, it could be brutally effective, allowing players to build and maintain an amazingly high-XP army in ridiculously short amounts of time. This faction may have XP problems the rest of the time, but with this unit in play that weakness is completely demolished.
It could be somewhat overpowering in Multiplayer, but since it's a 4th level units the impact is neglible. One will very seldom see any during a match. Roughly speaking in terms of balance the fact that such a unit is on the board forces the other player to take to the offensive as a matter of urgency.
The impact of such a unit in a campaign is more problematic, however in a campaign one has greater flexibility in balancing. The greatest problem is that the scenarios should be balanced so that they are winnable on the first playthrough. That means that players needs to get a hint that levelling up the unit is very important.
User avatar
solsword
Code Contributor
Posts: 291
Joined: January 12th, 2009, 10:21 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Contact:

Re: UMC ability: Unit gives +1 XP to all surrounding lower units

Post by solsword »

More ideas for balancing this ability:

First, you can limit the levels (or even types) of unit to which it applies.

Second, one of the unbalancing factors in campaign mode is that there's no relation between the ability use and actual combat, so in a scenario with infinite turns, you could just sit around and level up everyone while there's only 1 enemy left (or something like that... turns don't have to be infinite for this to be exploitable to a degree). To balance this, make it so that it only gives bonus XP when the unit would otherwise get XP: maybe 1 point for a battle and 1 point for a kill (in addition to the battle). This means that you'd have to have this unit out in the actual battle for the ability to kick in, and there's much less potential for abuse, since it doesn't become a separate source of XP.

Note: I take no credit for these ideas, in fact, I just read about the XP ability in the UMC Art forum (I think) in a thread about the Steelhive faction, and that post mentioned some other source for it, I think.
The Knights of the Silver Spire campaign.

http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~pmawhorter - my website.

Teamcolors for everyone! PM me for a teamcolored version of your sprite, or you can do it yourself. If you just happen to like magenta, no hard feelings?
Post Reply