UMC: Initiative rolls

[mastor3lf]

This is a suggestion for online multi-player UMC.

When you start a multi-player map there could should be an option to choose either the classic turn-based style of play, or a more dynamic initiative based style wherein at the start of the round a D20 initiative roll is made for each character a player has and that determines the order in which the characters activate.

Characters could also be given initiative bonus as a trait (quick, resilient, initiative)

I think this will create a cool, much more random flow in multi-player matches.

I have already considered the pros and cons.

Pros: Random, more unpredictable outcomes

Cons: Could slow down matches (especially with more than 2 players)

I think I could live with the slowness though, if it meant that it was way more random.

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The other suggestion was implementing some critical hit system (double damage), but I'm not sure its even possible with the current system.

[taemyr]

I think this is a bad idea.

Reason; turnovers, when you go from being last to being first. This translates to a double turn, which has a very powerful effect on the battle. This means that it will be essentially impossible to keep units alive.

[mastor3lf]

...when you go from being last to being first. This translates to a double turn, which has a very powerful effect on the battle. This means that it will be essentially impossible to keep units alive.

It goes both ways though.

You might get a double turn, as much as any other player.

Chance is chance.

[taemyr]

...when you go from being last to being first. This translates to a double turn, which has a very powerful effect on the battle. This means that it will be essentially impossible to keep units alive.

It goes both ways though.

You might get a double turn, as much as any other player.

Chance is chance.

In fact you will get at most one more of those double turns than what your opponent does. But the potentially devastating effect of these are what I am worried about.

[mastor3lf]

Your right, but the chance of this occuring is low.

You do understand that every character will move once before the first character gets the chance to move again. Its just the order that gets totally jumbled.

There are other games that use this system and it creates more fun!

I find that especially with 1v1 matches there is always a standoff before one player or the other decides to charge, and the aggressor is usually at a disadvantage, since the defending player is always waiting on high defence tiles.

If this random style option was implemented it would mean there would be less of a standoff and a much more random flow of play.

I don't think this would create an unfair advantage, depending entirely on lucky rolls, strategy will still be the most important thing.

[Ken_Oh]

People complain about luck too much already.

[CaptainNeeda]

You could easily use a warhammer rule for initiative that would be easy to implement. If a character is not in base contact with the enemy then comes into base contact it is considered as a "Charge" and therefore gets first attack. So charging doesnt go on initiative. However if you are in base contact with the enemy at the start of your turn and u wish to do battle again then it goes on initiative. Moving away from the character and to attack again from a different side doesnt count as a charge cos u started ur turn in base contact. You can however flee from the character and charge another character to get the first strike.

I think this idea could work if u did it like that. Naturally elfs should be quicker in battle so it will be a pro for them, so some balancing would be need, for eg, dwarfs have a lower initiative but have more hit points or do more damage. Or u could change it simply by making races with a higher initiative a bit more expensive or lowering the cost of low initiative races.

[Cloud]

WINW.

Sure a warhammer-charge like ability would be interesting, but I reckon it could be done with WML. I doubt it's ever going to make it to mainline.

[Lord Ork]

I bet there will never be this as a standard option. Please note that options are expensive, and this in particular is not like designing another entire game, but quite (and the worst would be maintaining it).

So, the only future of this idea is implementing it on an user made multiplayer scenario. But the only implementation that comes to my mind would be messy and slow to play.

[Velensk]

I do not think that this would improve the game. Especialy since the only stated pro is :more random unpredictable outcomes"

[mastor3lf]

I do not think that this would improve the game. Especialy since the only stated pro is :more random unpredictable outcomes"

After debating further though, I realized that it may also help prevent a stale mate in some games.

[ancestral]

It's not KISS and it would allow far greater random results. Technically speaking undead could be immune to critical hits, giving them a huge advantage.

I don't like this idea at all.

[Turuk]

This idea will not be added to the mainline game. You are free to continue discussion of this idea in development or adaptation for a UMC, but if this thread only continues to debate inclusion to mainline then it serves no purpose and will be locked.

[DarthChef]

I think this idea would make for a more interesting UMC. I think random chance (luck:)) is something that often adds flavor to a scenario. Elf will have to work hard on his Campaign though.. I wouldnt expect to see it any time soon

[mastor3lf]

Here is a more exact description of the mechanics.

A roll (equal to the number of characters on the board) is made each round. If two players get the same number the higher level character would go first, however If they are the same level they re-roll between themselves, continuously until an order is worked out.

For example:

At the start of the game there is a roll, before anyone recruits anything, there are 3 players in this example game so its a D3 roll.

Player 1: Rolls '1'
Player 2: Rolls '3'
Player 3: Rolls '2'

Gone are the days when player one always goes first !!

Player 2: (Orcish Warrior) recruits a wolf rider and Troll Welp
Player 3: (Elvish Captain) recruits a Mage and an Elvish Fighter
Player 1: (Dark Sorcerer) recruits a Ghost and a Skeleton

Round two comes up and D9 rolls are made for the 9 characters now on the board:

Player 2: Orcish Captain rolls '5' , Wolf rider rolls '2' Troll Welp rolls '9'
Player 3: Elvish captain rolls '1', Mage rolls '3', Elvish Fighter Rolls '1'
Player 1: Dark Sorcerer rolls '7', Ghost rolls '6', Skeleton rolls '4'

(Elvish Captain and Elvish Fighter re-roll and the Captain finally rolls higher)

So the order in round 2 would be:

Troll Welp, Dark Sorcerer, Ghost, Orcish Captain , Skeleton,]Mage, Wolf rider, Elvish Captain, Elvish Fighter

Round 3 comes up and There is a re-roll:

Player 2: Orcish Captain rolls '4' , Wolf rider rolls '6' Troll Welp rolls '9'
Player 3: Elvish captain rolls '6', Mage rolls '3', Elvish Fighter Rolls '6'
Player 1: Dark Sorcerer rolls '7', Ghost rolls '1', Skeleton rolls '2'

Elvish captain re-roll '4', Elvish fighter re-roll '3', Wolf rider re-roll '8'

Here is the order for Round 3:

Troll Whelp, Dark Sorcerer, Wolf rider, Orcish Captain ,Elvish Fighter, Orcish Captain , Mage , Skeleton, Ghost


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I think to make time flow normally each character needs to be treated as a separate player because the round should not end (time pass) until every player has moved.

Hope this helps, let me know how/if it works out.