Defense Outcome Information

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eyerouge
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Defense Outcome Information

Post by eyerouge »

As it is now the attacking player can see the possible & probable outcome of a certain attack by viewing the attack information box that appears, the one where you also get to choose weapon in cases with > 1 choices.

I wonder why an attacking or possibly attacking (after all, you can cancel the attack if the numbers aren't in your favour) player has this infoscreen while at the same time a possibly defending player has no means to view the same info.

My idea is that the system with information shouldn't favour anyone and that you shouldn't have to "fake attacks" in order to know how, probably, your unit x will fare against the opponents unit y when x is getting attacked by it (with it I mean unit y and on your opponents turn obviously).

I think many players would find it useful to have the information not just when being the aggressor, but also when (possibly) defending and can't really figure out why this isn't implemented already since it's 100% coherent with what's already in there. {Exactly how this could be implemented I'll leave to the coders, one example is: While it's your opponent(s) turn, you're allowed to select any unit and then point on any another and "simulate possible battle outcomes" in order to get to see the infoscreen that's already programmed in the game.}

Note: I won't explain or "defend" this idea idea as such a process is meaningless from my viewpoint since a heavy majority of all threads in here are proof it leads nowhere. When push comes to shove it doesn't matter much if an idea is good or not, KISS or not, it's about finding a coder that's willing to implement it. Just thought I'd through it out in here if it hasn't been suggested already. To me it seems illogical to have the function for attackers but not defenders.

Edit:
Note II: I suggested something which would be easy to implement, on purpose. If one would want to expand the idea it could easily be turned into something very nicer and even more useful: Why not just let any player at any time in the game bring up a screen where he selects to simulate the outcome of a battle between any units on any selected terrain, with any given abilities etc? Again, easy coding, however that would actually require slightly more work then my suggestion above.)

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Turuk
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Re: Defense Outcome Information

Post by Turuk »

Hmm, not a bad idea. Except that what is the reason behind letting the defender simulate a battle? When you are the aggressor and you are attacking, often times if the defender has 2 melee attacks, you can choose which one you will go up against, usually to your advantage.

Therefore, the defender has no choice in the battle, and what need is there for the defender to see a battle outcome? The AI or player is already running through their turn, and there is nothing you can do to stop what is happening.

Beyond that, when you placed your units and attacked on your turn, most player take into account the fact that the when Unit A attacks Unit B on turn 1, Unit B will attack Unit A back on turn 2. Thus Unit A will suffer the same attacks from Unit B as a defender that it suffered when attacking Unit B.

It doesn't particularly favor anyone, as when either side is the attacker, they get to view the information and choose the attack. Both attacker and defender cannot choose, and that would mean making it so neither side can choose. This would throw some of the balancing into effect, as a player would never know which attack he was going to receive from enemy.
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Fosprey
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Re: Defense Outcome Information

Post by Fosprey »

i agree is not top priority, but is a good idea to add. In fact sometimes i want to see the battle window for units i can't reach this turn, but i can't.
Also, it would be good to be ble to see that information on your opponent turn becuse it gives you something else to check on opponents turn, it means, another thing to do in your opponent turn. And one of the problem of tbs, and wesnoth is not exception, is that you have few things to do in your opponent's turn, making it boring.

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Wintermute
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Re: Defense Outcome Information

Post by Wintermute »

Well, speaking for mysefl here, I am the type of player that would use this sort of thing a lot - as I am a sucker for information.

However, the choice to implement these ideas are not as straightforward as you outline I think. With regard to defenders getting to choose what is happening for their units, this means that the attackers turn is held up for as long as the defender is thinking (or afk). In timed games, there would have to be adjustments to the timer. What happens if the defender disconnects while the attack/defense dialogue is in place? There are numerous such places that I think would have to be tested, debugged, and quite possibly modified. Now, maybe that is worth it. I think the big sticking point is the possibilty to seriously slow down a game though.
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tsr
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Re: Defense Outcome Information

Post by tsr »

I really like the idea, just one more thing: ToD. You have to be able to adjust for ToD otherwise it's quite a pointless tool since there quite often (I don't care to count) is a different ToD on your opponents coming turn than your own.

/tsr

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