Trait Idea: Perceptive

[Zachron]

I know it's not often that new traits are added, and they have to be both simple and useful to even be considered, but one just hit me.

Perceptive: It increase the sight range of the unit by 1 hex beyond it's maximum movement, filtering out impassible mountains and walls(can't see through them). This could allow the unit so see past terrain that is impassible to it, but not to other units, but not see through walls. It would also ensure that a unit always had at least a 2 hex sight radius.

To prevent it from disrupting game balance too much in multiplayer, it would have to be filtered out as a possible trait if Fog of War is disabled. (allow it if Fog of War is enabled, disallow it if Fog of War is disabled.)

Edit: It just occurred to me, that a simpler way to do it would be to calculate all adjacent terrain other than Walls and Impassible Mountains as having a Movement cost of 0 in the sight calculation. I'm not sure if that's possible or not, seeing as I'm still a total n00b with WML.

[Sangel]

You know, I don't think that this trait has been proposed before. Congratulations on your originality.

There is one problem, though - many campaign scenarios, and many multiplayer games, are played with fog and shroud disabled, rendering this trait useless. Having a trait be useless on a significant number of games is a big no-no.

Another problem is that "quick" also extends line of sight, while simultaneously extending movement. Thus "perceptive" would have to be significantly better than "quick" at extending line of sight under all conditions, or it would simply not be worth it.

[ADmiral-N]

significantly better

Like, 2 hex further than normal?

I like the idea

[Blarumyrran]

and afaik the engine doesnt (sadly) support it.

[michchar]

Make Perceptive give +2 movement, then, at the beginning of the turn, take away 2 movement (This was Bob the Mighty's idea)

[Max]

Make Perceptive give +2 movement, then, at the beginning of the turn, take away 2 movement (This was Bob the Mighty's idea)

and on the first update/refresh everything's gone again?

[zookeeper]

Make Perceptive give +2 movement, then, at the beginning of the turn, take away 2 movement (This was Bob the Mighty's idea)

and on the first update/refresh everything's gone again?

+2 max movement. So you'd start your turn with for example 6/8 MP, giving you 6 actual moves but vision of 8.

[cretin]

its an interesting idea, but i can already see people coming to the forum to ask why their 8 movement unit can only move 6 tiles.

[Unnheulu]

6/6/8? Can that be done?

[Blarumyrran]

6/8 is too hacky for mainline; although nofog games are of course a massively more important reason.

[michchar]

Yea, I agree

[Zachron]

...To prevent it from disrupting game balance too much in multiplayer, it would have to be filtered out as a possible trait if Fog of War is disabled. (allow it if Fog of War is enabled, disallow it if Fog of War is disabled.)...

Referring back to something I said in the starting post, it would have to be filtered out based on whether or not there is Fog. (Simply don't grant to trait if there is no Fog of War.) I'm sure it's possible to do that, but I'm not sure it would be up to mainline specs.

I also think it would be rather hokey to have additional movement points the unit can't use. That's why I wonder if it would be possible to set it up in such a way that calculated all adjacent tiles to the unit except for Walls and Impassible Mountains. That would add additional sight to the unit and give it the ability to peer over some impassible terrain such as deep water or chasms provided the unit is right next to it, but not give it the ability to peer over large expanses or see through walls.

What would differentiate the trait from "Quick" would be that it invariably would extend the vision range of the unit, and it wouldn't increase or decrease any other stat.

This is all speculation of course. Maybe I'll take a stab at it later, but I dropped the idea by, so It's out in the open for us to think about it.

[Corvvs]

...To prevent it from disrupting game balance too much in multiplayer, it would have to be filtered out as a possible trait if Fog of War is disabled. (allow it if Fog of War is enabled, disallow it if Fog of War is disabled.)...

Referring back to something I said in the starting post, it would have to be filtered out based on whether or not there is Fog. (Simply don't grant to trait if there is no Fog of War.) I'm sure it's possible to do that, but I'm not sure it would be up to mainline specs.

In campaigns, though, there are frequently scenarios with fog followed by fogless ones.

[Zachron]

Which is part of why I think the trait should confer no stat penalties. It would only be conditionally beneficial, it shouldn't be unconditionally harmful. In a way, the fact that it would have no drawbacks would be, in and of itself, advantageous, and the fact that it is only conditionally helpful would be, in and of itself, disadvantageous.

Given the issue of campaigns(Where the trait would be most helpful or most annoying), since scenarios can affect trait availability, I'd say make the trait available in the first few scenarios regardless of fog, make it available in the second and third quarter of the campaign in scenarios where fog is present, and make it unavailable to new recruits in the fourth quarter of the campaign. Like any other trait, it would and ought to weigh heavily on which units you choose to recall in which scenarios.

[Angry Andersen]

Given the issue of campaigns(Where the trait would be most helpful or most annoying), since scenarios can affect trait availability, I'd say make the trait available in the first few scenarios regardless of fog, make it available in the second and third quarter of the campaign in scenarios where fog is present, and make it unavailable to new recruits in the fourth quarter of the campaign. Like any other trait, it would and ought to weigh heavily on which units you choose to recall in which scenarios.

I think this proposal is very un-kiss. The best use of this trait IMHO would be in a campaign, where all scenarios have fog and where the player is multiple times confronted with ambush situations that should be prevented by skillful scouting and, of course, use of the perceptive trait. It could also be a trait only owned by one special character, e.g. the seer.